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"Evicting Einstein"
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20 years 3 months ago #11224
by tvanflandern
Reply from Tom Van Flandern was created by tvanflandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by glittle</i>
<br />Does the MetaModel have any testable predictions about what this experiment might find that would distinguish between the MetaModel and other models of gravity?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">In MM, light-bending is purely refraction in elysium, an optical medium. If the theory of refraction has been developed to second order in the index of refraction, I am unaware of it. If/when it is, the index of refraction is GM/(r c^2).
Of the post-Einstein models I know about, this would be most similar to the Yilmaz "New Theory". -|Tom|-
<br />Does the MetaModel have any testable predictions about what this experiment might find that would distinguish between the MetaModel and other models of gravity?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">In MM, light-bending is purely refraction in elysium, an optical medium. If the theory of refraction has been developed to second order in the index of refraction, I am unaware of it. If/when it is, the index of refraction is GM/(r c^2).
Of the post-Einstein models I know about, this would be most similar to the Yilmaz "New Theory". -|Tom|-
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20 years 3 months ago #11197
by Meta
Replied by Meta on topic Reply from Robert Grace
With erroneous assumptions such as "Gravity bends light near mass", it is no wonder that this backwards assumption will perfectly agree with the equally backward assumption that "Mass is the cause of lights bending".
Meta
rgrace@rgrace.org
Meta
rgrace@rgrace.org
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20 years 3 months ago #11200
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Meta</i>
<br />With erroneous assumptions such as "Gravity bends light near mass"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Who has made such an assumption? Certainly not science, which has repeatedly <i>measured</i> light-bending by the Sun.
The earliest measures were of questionable accuracy: optical measurements of stars during eclipses of the Sun by Eddington in 1918). But this experiment has been repeated many times since (so often that it is no longer publishable) with better weather, controls, instruments, filters, and measuring apparatus. The end result is no longer in doubt, and is now sometimes used as a lab project for training graduate students.
But modern observations have rendered the optical measurements of historical interest only. This began with Phys.Rev.Lett. 24, 1373-1376 (1970): "Measurement of the of 9.602-GHz radiation from 3C279 in the solar gravitational field", G.A. Seielstad, R.A. Sramek & K.W. Weiler. The position of radio source [quasar] 3C279 was interferometrically monitored during its annual occultation by the Sun in October 1969 to determine the deviation of its 9.602-GHz radiation in the solar gravitational field. Repeated instrumental calibration and negligible coronal refraction enabled the measurement of the general relativity “light bending" deflection. The result was 1.77” +/- 0.20” at the limb of the Sun, as compared with the predicted value of 1.75”.
More recently, we have D.S. Robertson et al., Nature 349 (1991) 768: 74 radio sources, over 300,000 VLBI observations; fitting not just deflection at the limb of the Sun, but the amount and functional form of deflection as a function of distance from the limb. The result at all angular distances agrees with relativity, whose prediction is verified to within a standard error of 0.2%.
Or D.E. Lebach et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 75 (1995) 1439: VLBI measurements of two extragalactic radio sources at three frequencies; a total of over 20,000 measurements; standard error of less than 0.2%.
Finally, we have the coup de grace of experimental measurements of light-bending by mass: See physicsweb.org/article/news/7/9/14 or Nature 425, ix & 374-376 (2003). Using signals from Earth to the Cassini spacecraft, the magnitude of the predicted light-bending effect produced by the Sun was shown to agree with GR predictions to within 23 parts per million.
Calling a solidly established experimental result an "assumption" sounds like someone with a falsified theory or idea clinging to hope and ignoring all counter-evidence. But the key to making intellectual progress is to let pet theories go when the first solid evidence goes against them. The opposite is just another form of bias, such as mainstream science is riddled with. -|Tom|-
<br />With erroneous assumptions such as "Gravity bends light near mass"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Who has made such an assumption? Certainly not science, which has repeatedly <i>measured</i> light-bending by the Sun.
The earliest measures were of questionable accuracy: optical measurements of stars during eclipses of the Sun by Eddington in 1918). But this experiment has been repeated many times since (so often that it is no longer publishable) with better weather, controls, instruments, filters, and measuring apparatus. The end result is no longer in doubt, and is now sometimes used as a lab project for training graduate students.
But modern observations have rendered the optical measurements of historical interest only. This began with Phys.Rev.Lett. 24, 1373-1376 (1970): "Measurement of the of 9.602-GHz radiation from 3C279 in the solar gravitational field", G.A. Seielstad, R.A. Sramek & K.W. Weiler. The position of radio source [quasar] 3C279 was interferometrically monitored during its annual occultation by the Sun in October 1969 to determine the deviation of its 9.602-GHz radiation in the solar gravitational field. Repeated instrumental calibration and negligible coronal refraction enabled the measurement of the general relativity “light bending" deflection. The result was 1.77” +/- 0.20” at the limb of the Sun, as compared with the predicted value of 1.75”.
More recently, we have D.S. Robertson et al., Nature 349 (1991) 768: 74 radio sources, over 300,000 VLBI observations; fitting not just deflection at the limb of the Sun, but the amount and functional form of deflection as a function of distance from the limb. The result at all angular distances agrees with relativity, whose prediction is verified to within a standard error of 0.2%.
Or D.E. Lebach et al., Phys. Rev. Lett. 75 (1995) 1439: VLBI measurements of two extragalactic radio sources at three frequencies; a total of over 20,000 measurements; standard error of less than 0.2%.
Finally, we have the coup de grace of experimental measurements of light-bending by mass: See physicsweb.org/article/news/7/9/14 or Nature 425, ix & 374-376 (2003). Using signals from Earth to the Cassini spacecraft, the magnitude of the predicted light-bending effect produced by the Sun was shown to agree with GR predictions to within 23 parts per million.
Calling a solidly established experimental result an "assumption" sounds like someone with a falsified theory or idea clinging to hope and ignoring all counter-evidence. But the key to making intellectual progress is to let pet theories go when the first solid evidence goes against them. The opposite is just another form of bias, such as mainstream science is riddled with. -|Tom|-
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20 years 3 months ago #11237
by Jan
Replied by Jan on topic Reply from Jan Vink
Good news: [url]
physicsweb.org/article/news/8/7/16
[/url]
Einstein is not evicted, but no one seems to claim that <b>distributed phenomena</b> cannot travel faster than light...
Einstein is not evicted, but no one seems to claim that <b>distributed phenomena</b> cannot travel faster than light...
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20 years 3 months ago #11238
by Meta
Replied by Meta on topic Reply from Robert Grace
The gravity bending theory made an assumption and even deeper error by supporting an earth based measurement and assigning bending to gravity when gravity is neither understood nor is the cause of the bending. It's very sad. Einstein and his apologists are backwards when it comes to understanding space.
*********
Originally posted by Meta
With erroneous assumptions such as "Gravity bends light near mass"
TVF: Who has made such an assumption? Certainly not science, which has repeatedly measured light-bending by the Sun.
*********
www.rgrace.org/145/152evictein.html
Permit me to show you what your hallowed science says about gravity and light bending, and how backwards it really is.
Meta
rgrace@rgrace.org
*********
Originally posted by Meta
With erroneous assumptions such as "Gravity bends light near mass"
TVF: Who has made such an assumption? Certainly not science, which has repeatedly measured light-bending by the Sun.
*********
www.rgrace.org/145/152evictein.html
Permit me to show you what your hallowed science says about gravity and light bending, and how backwards it really is.
Meta
rgrace@rgrace.org
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20 years 3 months ago #11239
by Meta
Replied by Meta on topic Reply from Robert Grace
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