temperature and the meta model

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by emanuel</i>
<br />How does temperature figure into the meta-model? I'm thinking specifically of absolute zero.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">If we lived in an ocean and had no way to keep the water out of everything, it would be difficult to lower the temperature of anything below that of the surrounding water. But in MM, we do live in an ocean of elysium, and therefore "absolute zero" to us is the temperature of the local elysium. We can't get colder than that until we learn how to build structures that cannot be penetrated and permeated by elysium.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If scale is infinite, temperature must be infinite too, or at least it seems that way to me.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I don't see your reasoning here. Given that temperature is a measure of mean molecular speed, if that speed is reduced to zero, the temperature must likewise be zero and cannot get "colder" than monionless molecules.

We call temperature a "scale", but that is a different meaning of the word than the scale dimension in MM, which is more akin to "mass". We don't call it "mass" because that concept is undefined for very large and very small scales, where it cannot mean either of the two types we presently use: gravitational mass and inertial mass.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How can there be an absolute coldest temperature in the meta model? Or is there?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">There is, but it is way below what we presently call "absolute zero", which is just the temperature of local elysium. -|Tom|-

Thanks Tom. That explains a lot. How, though, can mean molecular speed be reduced to "zero." I guess I'm not sure I understand what mean molecular speed is, exactly.

Emanuel

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by emanuel</i>
<br />I guess I'm not sure I understand what mean molecular speed is, exactly.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">In a solid, it is the speed of vibration of molecules. When molecules are heated, their vibrations increase. If they get hot enough, the molecules first flow (liquid stage), then fly apart (gaseous stage). Temperature is just a measure of the mean speed of the molecules in any of these stages. -|Tom|-

So what is "speed of vibration?" Speed is relative to something? What are the molecules vibrating relative too?

And when the molecules' vibration stops at absolute zero, what is going on with the particles inside the molecules? Are the electrons not still rotating or spinning? Is there no motion at all???

Emanuel

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by emanuel</i>
<br />So what is "speed of vibration?" Speed is relative to something? What are the molecules vibrating relative to?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">As with anything, a vibration is a back-and-forth displacement relative to any set location.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">And when the molecules' vibration stops at absolute zero, what is going on with the particles inside the molecules? Are the electrons not still rotating or spinning? Is there no motion at all?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Temperature is defined only down to the molecular level. Atoms in the molecules are still "normal" even at absolute zero. There are changes in the atoms, but that gets into the area of superconductivity -- something poorly understood in general, and even less understood by me. -|Tom|-

Thanks again Tom. I realize this is basic stuff, but I never knew it. Can I ask one more question? What is it exactly that makes different molecules melt/vaporize at different temperatures? Another way to phrase the question is what is it about molecules that keep them vibrating close together (solid) rather than slipping away from nearby molecules (liquid) or flying away (gas)? Is there a bond between molecules that is strengthened or weakened by temperature?

Is temperature nothing more than the strengthening/weakening of this bond? What is the bond?

Emanuel