Mro--First Looks

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Flimflam men see flimflam men. As ye sow so shall ye reap. [fred]

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Hit a nerve did I fred? Give us scientific evidence we can trust and I shall retract. If not, I suspect you and your shill rd will not be taken seriously much anymore.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by pareidoliac</i>
<br />Flimflam men see flimflam men. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> One day in the early 80s, I parked my car on the street at work, behind a fellow worker, who had a big pickup truck. When he got in his car to go home, he backed up without looking and crushed my front end (lights, grill, radiator). He left me a note to call him, which I did. He told me he didn't have insurance (that was still possible in those days) and asked me to get an estimate and he would pay for the damages. I told him I'd get 3 estimates, and he could give me the lowest one. Without thinking about the "where" of it, I picked 3 shops at random and got 3 written estimates. I showed them to him, and said, "ok, $800 will do it." To which he replied, "$800?! You must have added $500 to the estimate."

Later that day, while eating lunch with a good friend of mine, I told him the story. He replied, "well, now you know what <b>he'd </b> do if he had to get an estimate."

rd

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">One day in the early 80s, I parked my car on the street at work, behind a fellow worker, who had a big pickup truck. When he got in his car to go home, he backed up without looking and crushed my front end (lights, grill, radiator). He left me a note to call him, which I did. He told me he didn't have insurance (that was still possible in those days) and asked me to get an estimate and he would pay for the damages. I told him I'd get 3 estimates, and he could give me the lowest one. Without thinking about the "where" of it, I picked 3 shops at random and got 3 written estimates. I showed them to him, and said, "ok, $800 will do it." To which he replied, "$800?! You must have added $500 to the estimate."

Later that day, while eating lunch with a good friend of mine, I told him the story. He replied, "well, now you know what he'd do if he had to get an estimate."[rd]
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uh huh. I'm not the one selling the stuff but refusing to give evidence. Fred is, and you're shilling for him, why, one can only guess.

Neil- The evidence is there for any seer.

Neil, your posts are crossing the line to ad hominem. Cool down.

We are apparently not going to see anything from Fred closer to the original Lila image. So the scientific pedigree remains ambiguous and unverifiable. It is not acceptable to verbalize our respective self-serving suspicions about other people's motives.

Fred's stuff is unverifiable. (I personally think it is real, but that's just my bias, and does not make it admissable as scientific evidence.)

Rich's statistical argument is as ad hoc as they come. (It contains adjustable parameters which were adjusted in the direction toward hitting a known target.)

No one seems willing to do an independent replication.

I'd say this line of inquiry has ended, unless someone has something genuinely new and on point to add. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br />Rich's statistical argument is as ad hoc as they come. (It contains adjustable parameters which were adjusted in the direction toward hitting a known target.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> It's a little trick I learned when having to do time estimates: start at the answer, and work backwards. It's 100% right (or wrong) depending upon your point of view.[]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">No one seems willing to do an independent replication.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I'm going to attempt it (actually I started going through the motions, already), but attempting it and failing doesn't really prove anything anyway. I could attempt to paint the Sistine Chapel, too, but wouldn't bet much on my chance of success. I could attempt to hit a major league fastball too, but having spent many hours at batting cages, I say I had a better chance catching Bigfoot.

We shouldn't sell Fred's work short. He devoted a good portion of his life to it, and ended up being quite successfull. There are many factors involved. Is it fair to say, "anyone can do it?" If nobody else can do it, does that mean he didn't do it?

I would love to see Fred prove it somehow, but I'm not exactly sure how he would do that. The only thing I can think of, that would <b>really </b>prove it to me would be if I had the original negative in my hands, examined it, ran off a few copies, and things of that nature (oh yeah, and get a couple of sworn affidavits from family members saying nobody was pulling on branches at the time). And that's surely out of the question. I tend to agree with him that anything short of that's not going to prove much.

rd