infinite, eternal universe

dds, thank you for your kind words. the evolution of beliefs is on-going in us all, i believe. the idea is to present what i feel i know and take what i like, or find convenient to believe, from others. naturally, we have preconceived ideas that must be overcome or judged as incorrect and move on. to think that there is no god and that we are mere animals is difficult for some people to even entertain as a possibility. And there is always the chance that there is a god or gods and that we are not animals but created in god's image or are somehow special. to me, now, that is just wishful thinking by the people who have, so far, been unable to rise above culture and tradition in the quest for the truth. when we die, for me (and i could be wrong), it is the same as a dog or cat or tree dying. no consciousness, nothing, dissolution of minerals and elements. if ones ashes are spread out in a pretty place, like in the hill country somewhere, then ones "being" becomes part of the grass that is eaten by a deer or part of a tree that's fruit is eaten by a bird.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">when we die, for me (and i could be wrong), it is the same as a dog or cat or tree dying. no consciousness, nothing, dissolution of minerals and elements.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> You express the impossibility of something from nothing, and then say nothing from something as if it were an accepted truth. You are all over the place showing no consistency whatsoever.

skarp, when a dog dies, what happens? it deteriorates. the matter is still there but in a different form. same with all living beings. the matter does not go away but changes form. my thing is that i don't care what the form is because it's all matter, period. i don't consider consciousness as being separate from the electro/chemical properties of any living organism...mental functioning. once the mind dies, it doesn't function or have consciousness. as far as the universe is concerned, something is eternal, in my opinion. now the universe definitely exists and so has a greater probability of being eternal that something that may or may not exist, be it a creator or something that we are not capable of conceiving. however, the big bang could not have created the universe because it contains no eternal element. so, you and i are inconsequential. we will die and our matter will change into something else but the universe always was and always will be, in my opinion.

I am firmly entrenched in the idea that Existence is entirely conceptual. Therefore if our consciousness can become null and void - The universe can come from nothing. Just to be clear - I'm saying the universe is not a physical entity, but simply a product in nothing through purely conceptual means. The universe is the definition of nothing.

What is the simplest form that all the mass of the universe can take, applying the science we know today? The answer to this question will define the only nothing possible. I say it is pure neutrally charged energy and this is the closest thing to nothing that can be shown to exist. As for space itself, what rule in science allows any discipline to eliminate our 3-D reality and what observation confirmed it?

skarp, i think that is a very interesting idea. to me, the greatest concept is that of the infinity of space. now, this is absolutely incomprehensible to me! second, why does anything exist at all?! maybe, "why" is not the word but... i'm into nilism to the extent that i don't think that the universe has any purpose (so to speak), creator, etc, but i never thought of pure nilism, like you say, "the definition of nothing". if the universe is EVERYTHING that exists, including "souls", "spirits", "creators", "gods", radiation, space, whatever, then, why can it not be nothing? i guess, though, i look at space as being nothing, the backdrop for matter. but to be conceptual, it has to be conceived and to be conceived, for us, one needs a brain and that is matter and subject to dissolution. one day there will be no humans. it's like the tree falling in the woods, it does make noise whether a person is there to hear it. the universe does exist, whether there are humans to perceive it or not. now, whether that existence can be essentially considered "nothing", i don't know but it kinda has an intriguing feel to the idea. nothing and everything. thanks for the comment.