CBR has the answer

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thebobgy</i>
I however, do not konw or conclude whether the universe, with life, was created or has alway existed
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We know how how life developped on the Earth. Speaking of "origin of the Universe" is meaningless : Science must use meaningful words.

Stardust; we are all made out of stardust. Everything on earth is a recycling process. We human have memory. Stardust is made out of memory. So the blade of grass that decayed into soil that made corn that we ate that supplied us with memory power,life power,and energy must contain memory just like the matter out in space does.

ryan Henningsgaard

Tom,
My response to Harry was not an attempt to sell creationism and I do not think it can be inferred that I tried to do so. In that response to him I made a statement and posed a question; my statement was,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I however, do not know or conclude whether the universe, with life, was created or has always existed, I have insufficient data.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> And my question was,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So I am left with the thought provoking question; Of the two possibilities, which is closest to reality using common sense? 1.)Life and the universe was created or 2.) Life and the universe has just always existed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Evidently you choose foreverism as being the closest to reality using common sense. However, it is foreverism that needs an explanation not creationism; the question being; when did forever begin? I have a logical answer but I would like to read your explanation, I mean, if you have a belief in the foreverism of the universe then I would think you would have a plausible causation for your belief, seems logical to me.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Whether the universe is much older than the Big Bang, or not, is a question for data. Whether the universe had an origin or always existed is not one that can be answered with data. It can only be addressed with logic, as in metaresearch.org/cosmology/PhysicsHasItsPrinciples.asp

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What is logic if not the assimilation of data?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In the field that we call "deep reality physics", we agree to describe the origin and nature of everything without invoking miracles for as long as that remains possible. Invoking a miracle defies explanation and predictability and terminates further inquiry, making it unscientific. Creation <i>ex nihilo</i> is a miracle.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I know this is an age old question but; Who is WE? And when did I sign onto that agreement? I contributed to MR because I thought that is was an avenue for the open expression of ideas. Please understand, I am not a spambot and if I disagree it is not intended to antagonize but I did pay my dues and answer the questions and I do think I should have right to express myself.
Moreover, Webster’s defines miracle as divine intervention or causation, I am not asking you, or anyone, to accept divine intervention but it certainly is an explanation and it most assuredly provides a causation.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Fortunately, there is a logical alternative to creation <i>ex nihilo</i>, which is that the universe has existed forever. A corollary is that nothing is ever created or destroyed, but merely changes form. So far, we have no reason to think otherwise.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I do not disagree but your statement does evoke a philosophical question; would a creator give the creation the ability to create? We do not have the ability to create but does that preclude the possibility that ability to create does not exist? It is scary enough seeing what science does with what already exists.Having said all that I have, if I had to make a decision, <i>re;</i> my original question, I would choose foreverism. In the mean time I will continue searching <i>for as long as that remains possible.</i>
Thank you for your time,
thebobgy

Smile

thebobgy said:

"I do not disagree but your statement does evoke a philosophical question; would a creator give the creation the ability to create? We do not have the ability to create but does that preclude the possibility that ability to create does not exist? It is scary enough seeing what science does with what already exists.Having said all that I have, if I had to make a decision, re; my original question, I would choose foreverism. In the mean time I will continue searching for as long as that remains possible"

Have you ever felt that your going around in circles.

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Ryan said
"Stardust; we are all made out of stardust. Everything on earth is a recycling process. We human have memory. Stardust is made out of memory. So the blade of grass that decayed into soil that made corn that we ate that supplied us with memory power,life power,and energy must contain memory just like the matter out in space does."

Your right about the recycling. Forget about the memory. Dust to dust.

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Ryan said

"Now at the edges of this cosmic background radiation it would seem clear to me that if the universe was rotating around and in orbit with what I am refering to as a sunburst that which supplies energy to universes within its solar system of universe there would be changes in climate"

If the universe is "ALL" how can "ALL" rotate around itself, particularly if the universe is infinite.

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Man has always looked for a Start, an Origin, where did we come from, where are we going and so on.
These questions have become a challenge for man. To go where no man has gone before.

Can life start on its own. The answer to that is yes.
Has life being in the univere for ever. Yes and no. Why not?
According to Murphys Law, If there is a chance of it happening than it will happen in time. Again and again.

Throught history man has been in an "EGG SHELL" of knowledge. The more knowledge the bigger the egg. The shell prevents man from looking beyond himself. The habit forces that we create locks and traps us with our own ideas.

So!!!!! I hope I'm open minded.

Throw all the ideas and theories up in the air and let God pick the right one.

Smile,,,,,,,Happy New Year









Harry

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So Harry asks the thebobgy;
Have you ever felt that your going around in circles?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Uh...ya! it's called rotation; ever notice that bright object in the sky, well guess what? it's not moving we are! If that does not help, lie down for a while.

With all the empathy I could muster,
thebobgy

We all move

Harry