What is Big Science?

<b>[Jim] "At least now crazies are fed to the lions or a worse fate. We are free to rant on sort of--"</b>

I presume you meant to say "... [NOT] fed to the lions ... "?

LB, What was accomplished during the exceptional times you see when things were different than normal? Maybe you have a book here because it looks like a new way of seeing the past.

One of these exception times I see is called the Renaissance. From approximately 1300 to approximately 1600, in some parts of Europe, there was a ... relaxation? ... of the usual tendeny of the haves to brutally suppress the have-nots.

Now, I don't want to lead you astray. Everything was not suddenly sweetness and light, except possibly in a relative sense, for three hundred years. Instead of constant brutal suppression, the haves (for reason or reasons unknown) slacked of to mere sporatic brutal suppression of the have-nots.

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The result was an expansion of teaching and learning that was, to say the least, unusual. The arts and the sciences made large strides, compared to what happened both before this period and after. New ways of depicting things (the concept of perspective drawing, for example) were invented.

This was the time of Columbus, and others who traveled the world in search of adventure, wealth, and knowledge.

It was also the time of Copernicus, Galileo, Brahe and Kepler. And it was when Scientific Method was developed and adopted as a standard of excellence.

New theories of God (new religions, and off-shoots of existing religions) were put forth by brave schollars (Erasmus, Luther and Calvin) but were not automatically stamped out for this little exception period. In fact, some historians claim that the Church of that time actually encouraged some of this learning/teaching explosion. Go figure.

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Most of these changes were not permanent, and when the world did return to its "always mode" they were taken back. But not all of them. And much the new knowledge (both true and false) generated during this little burp is still with us.

LB

The Renaissance was done under the rules of the Pope and was mostly in Italy. The Germans were kind of free then though.

<b>[Jim] "The Renaissance was done under the rules of the Pope and was mostly in Italy."</b>

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it too. These "exception periods" do tend to be short lived and geographically limited. The fascinating thing about them is that the powers that be (in this case the Church) lift their thumbs off of the people for a while. For a little while, in a few places, the individual is under less compulsion to hew to some sort of "official world view".

And when that happens, art and science and prosperity - and happiness - go up. Way up, in some cases.

As I said previously I'm not implying that all problems go away. One recurring blemish in all of the exception events I've identified is that the benefits experienced by many individuals are not experienced by all individuals. And this odd phenomenon is group dependent - if you are a member of Group A you still live under a thumb, but the members of Group B start living free. (More or less.)

But the closer you get to the time-center and the space-center of one of these exception events, the closer you get to ... utopia? ... heaven? ... the other side of the fence?

Well, I'm still looking for the word I need. I'm trying to say that things tend to get better, and the amount of improvement depends on the specific circumstances surrounding the event. We will probably never actually get there, but these exceptions do demonstrate that the present sorry state of affairs can be replaced with something much better.

If we can understand how it has happened before, perhaps we can figure out how to make it happen again?

<b>[Jim]
(from the thread titled <i>The God-Did-It Theory</i>, pg 3, 13 Jul 2006:18:59:44)

"If science has the ability to weed out false ideas why is astrophysics still growing and going strong. If you need to believe in dense matter, blackholes, expanding space and other such unprovable ideas just to get past asph101 how can weeding be done? If you have to confess fusion power rules and believe in the rules of the game just to get a low paying job in the field how do you get anyone to do the weeding?"</b>

I was going over an old thread earliier today, and came across this. As an aside to the main discussion, you and Tom were discussing some of the consequences to science that I now recognize as resulting from us NOT being near the center of an exception event.

Our local equivalent of the Church appears to be the combined government funding agencies?
Our "official world view" appears to be - modern science?

This "official world view" we are required believe is, all in all not too bad, as it includes things like engineering and biology. But it does also include certain elements (BB, QM, etc.) that seem to you and me and many of the others here to be, umm, questionable.

When I became aware of my lack of acceptance of these things late in my Junior year at college, I just shifted to engineering. It worked out well. As an engineer you are aware of the flakey stuff, but for the most part you just ignore it. When you build a physical thingy for a paying customer, it actually has to work. So engineers use the laws of Newton rather than Eistein, etc.

A few results from QM and GR have been "simplified" for use in engineering work. For example, some 4D space-time equations cannnot be used "as is". (No one knows how to measure something or build a physical device using 4D coordinates). So these equations must be translated into a "Newtonian approximation". The raw 4D space-time coordinates become raw 3D space plus raw 1D time coordinates (and those famous paradoxes somehow disappear), and then things are easy.

Physics remained my true love, however, so I did finish my physics courses and got that degree also. I just had to stiffle myself and answer the questions like they wanted me to.

When I discovered Tom and his work here I knew I was home.

LB