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The entropy of systems
20 years 3 months ago #11389
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
I disagree,
The atoms on the outer surfaces will radiate more energy than the ones inside the prism !
If all the atoms were at the same energy state, your object would have no shape.
Lets have a bit of common sense.[]
The atoms on the outer surfaces will radiate more energy than the ones inside the prism !
If all the atoms were at the same energy state, your object would have no shape.
Lets have a bit of common sense.[]
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- Larry Burford
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20 years 3 months ago #11585
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
[GD] " ... if a prism ... is heated so that the atoms at the small end and at the thick end are approximately at the same energy state ... "
and
"The atoms on the outer surfaces will radiate more energy than the ones inside ..."
So? That means the surface atoms can never be at exactly the same energy state as the internal atoms. But it doesn't keep them from being at " ... approximately the same energy state ... "
===
What does this have to do with your proposed experiment? (GD - "In an experiment, if a prism ... is heated so that the atoms at the small end and at the thick end are approximately at the same energy state, ... ")
and
"The atoms on the outer surfaces will radiate more energy than the ones inside ..."
So? That means the surface atoms can never be at exactly the same energy state as the internal atoms. But it doesn't keep them from being at " ... approximately the same energy state ... "
===
What does this have to do with your proposed experiment? (GD - "In an experiment, if a prism ... is heated so that the atoms at the small end and at the thick end are approximately at the same energy state, ... ")
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20 years 3 months ago #11390
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Hello GD, The atom can be shown on a thermodynamic diagram at any entrophy level or any temperature-I'm sure you will aggree with that so far. The diagram would be two dimensional with entrophy paced off horizonally and temperature vertically. No matter where you place the atom in the diagram it is the same atom-nothing is changed in the atom reguardless of where it is on the diagram. The entrophy can be zero or a million and the atom is the same.
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20 years 3 months ago #11391
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
Hello LB, Jim,
The prism analogy was probably a bad example. The molecular structure of the object certainly affects the result.
The atoms would have to be arranged in such a way that when energized they would emit the same frequency in order to get only one colour.
I still think molecular bonding is possible because the potential or entropy of the atom allows it.
This is why the Earth's atmosphere does not extend 2000 miles above it's surface.
Am I the only one to think this way ?
The prism analogy was probably a bad example. The molecular structure of the object certainly affects the result.
The atoms would have to be arranged in such a way that when energized they would emit the same frequency in order to get only one colour.
I still think molecular bonding is possible because the potential or entropy of the atom allows it.
This is why the Earth's atmosphere does not extend 2000 miles above it's surface.
Am I the only one to think this way ?
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- Larry Burford
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20 years 3 months ago #11360
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
Sure. Why should you be any different from the rest of us?
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20 years 3 months ago #11394
by GD
Replied by GD on topic Reply from
Larry,
Are you saying the potential energy of an atom is always the same no matter how many atoms are bonded together ?
(For a prism, the outside surfaces have less bonds than the ones at its center.)
Or for example: the bonding of hydrogen atoms in clouds, in an ocean, or in the sun have the same potential (or entropy)?
How would today's physics explain non-conservation of parity or space reflection symmetry in beta decay for example.
Is the direcion of travel of planets or even gravity a violation of this symmetry ?
How about "Olbers' paradox":
"If the universe is infinite, uniform, and unchanging, the sky at night would be bright, as in whatever direction one looked, one would eventually see a star. The number of stars would increase in proportion to the square of the distance from the earth: the intensity of light reaching the earth from a given star is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
Consequently, the whole sky would be as bright as the sun.
The paradox, that this is not the case, was stated by Heinrich Olbers (1758-1840) in 1826.
The paradox is resolved by the fact that, according to the big bang theory, the universe is not infinite, not uniform, and not unchanging.
For instance, the most distant galaxies displays an extreme redshift and cease to be visible." -taken from "Oxford dictionary of science"
What is not said in this paradox, is that in billions of years from now, the sky will be white, because the solar system will be closer to the center of the galaxy.
The entropy theory seems to solve all of this.
Do you agree ?
Are you saying the potential energy of an atom is always the same no matter how many atoms are bonded together ?
(For a prism, the outside surfaces have less bonds than the ones at its center.)
Or for example: the bonding of hydrogen atoms in clouds, in an ocean, or in the sun have the same potential (or entropy)?
How would today's physics explain non-conservation of parity or space reflection symmetry in beta decay for example.
Is the direcion of travel of planets or even gravity a violation of this symmetry ?
How about "Olbers' paradox":
"If the universe is infinite, uniform, and unchanging, the sky at night would be bright, as in whatever direction one looked, one would eventually see a star. The number of stars would increase in proportion to the square of the distance from the earth: the intensity of light reaching the earth from a given star is inversely proportional to the square of the distance.
Consequently, the whole sky would be as bright as the sun.
The paradox, that this is not the case, was stated by Heinrich Olbers (1758-1840) in 1826.
The paradox is resolved by the fact that, according to the big bang theory, the universe is not infinite, not uniform, and not unchanging.
For instance, the most distant galaxies displays an extreme redshift and cease to be visible." -taken from "Oxford dictionary of science"
What is not said in this paradox, is that in billions of years from now, the sky will be white, because the solar system will be closer to the center of the galaxy.
The entropy theory seems to solve all of this.
Do you agree ?
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