Moon By Spinoff

I favor the capture model for the moon, but, kicking around other ideas is interesting. What about all the other moons in the Solar System-can they be fissioned into existance too? The moons of Jupiter are nothing like Jupiter and are not alike themselves.

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Might this be the result of a difference of perspective?
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Larry,

Could you please tell me if my point of view really is so hard to understand? I claim that, gravity and centrifugal forces being the only agents, they together make any big gaseous/liquid/solid body to adjust its shape virtually instantly to the value of spin. To contain any overspin, there must be some third agent, like pressure of outer non-overspun layers, or radiation pressure, or magnetic field (in case of a plasmoid body). Only the smaller solid rocks can overspin due to cohesion bond. Overspin of Earth promptly leads to ring-forming, total disruption of the crust, loss of atmosphere and ocean water and the overall deformation.

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The moons of Jupiter are nothing like Jupiter and are not alike themselves.
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Jupiter could catch them easily. First a brief contact with its atmosphere, then tidal friction does the trick. One big trap.

[lb]
Might this be the result of a difference of perspective?

[ab]

Larry,

Could you please tell me if my point of view really is so hard to understand?

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Not really hard to understand, but hard[er] to justify because you are talking about local effects. You have to know a lot about what materials are involved, how hot they are, what kinds of flaws exist in them and where these are located, whether there are any pockets of material that might suddenly and explosively decompress if a crack ran to/through them, etc. Without this level of detailed knowledge you are forced to make a long series of educated speculations.

Very interesting and many of them likely to be correct under various circumstances. But as soon as you stand back a few million miles and look at the big picture most if not all of them become inconsequential to the overall process of fission.

[ab]

I claim that, gravity and centrifugal forces being the only agents, they together make any big gaseous/liquid/solid body to adjust its shape virtually instantly to the value of spin. To contain any overspin, there must be some third agent, like pressure of outer non-overspun layers, or radiation pressure, or magnetic field (in case of a plasmoid body). Only the smaller solid rocks can overspin due to cohesion bond. Overspin of Earth promptly leads to ring-forming, total disruption of the crust, loss of atmosphere and ocean water and the overall deformation.

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"To contain any over spin" ... Hmmm. I believe that over spin, by definition, is not contained. At least not for long. Consider the three cases:


A) under spin

At 95% of even spin the equator is bulging large. Rivers lakes and oceans may be distorted somewhat but they still work pretty much like they do now (the Earth is presently at 0.095% [???] of even spin). Tom's baseball dropped at the equator would fall much slower than normal. If you move a mile closer to a pole and drop it, the rate of fall is a little larger. At either pole it falls at just about the normal rate.


"even" spin

At 100% of even spin a ball dropped at the equator hovers at its drop height. If you throw it up as hard as you can it will disappear but a "day" later it will fall out of the sky (neglecting air resistance) as its orbit brings it back. Since it started from the surface with a non-zero upward speed it will hit the ground if you don't catch it. A mile closer to either pole it falls slowly when released. At a pole it falls at just about the normal rate. Lakes and oceans will still behave "normally", even at the equator, if not disturbed, But at the equator things have become borderline unstable. Even the slightest disturbance can cause things to move upward.

Rivers probably stop behaving normally before even spin is reached. A waterfall at the equator would be fun to watch! The water would just keep going sideways. A mile closer to a pole it would drop, but not very rapidly. At a pole it would fall normally.


C) over spin

Material strength would seem to limit how far above even spin the situation can go before a serious fission event takes place. If the crust is strong enough to resist one or two tenths of a percent of over spin then the ball released at the equator would "fall" slowly upward. A mile closer to either pole it might float at release height. At a pole it will still fall normally.

If the crust "lets go" at this point a few percent of the Earth's equatorial and near-equatorial material might separate and find itself in orbit. Certainly some of the water and atmosphere would follow. How much? Difficult to say. Inertia would place some strong limits on really large movements, however. A few percent, maybe?

The bulge would immediately recede, increasing the orbital altitude of the fissioned material. The orbiting piles of stuff would tend to draw themselves into one mass almost immediately, but multiple masses don't seem to be an impossible outcome. A ring of material also seems likely to form on a temporary basis. Tidal forces would tend to force this material into a larger orbit. Especially the large chunks.

Does any of this help? This is what I see when I read Tom's discussion of the general process of fission. After thinking about your up-close-and-personal perspective I can imagine adding some of the details, and they are spectacular.

Don't think I'd want to see it in person, though.

Regards,
LB

Larry,

I'm sorry to say that, but you are still enchanted by Tom's original reasoning.
Consider this - the pressure inside Earth body at the equator plane is zero at the "evenspin". Assuming Earth mostly liquid, we must infer pressure is zero inside all the Earth body. The only configuration allowing zero pressure is a completely flattened Earth, which means the planet sheds itself into rings as it only approaches the "evenspin", being squeezed by the still pushing polar areas.
No deep intricacies to study here, basta!

[ab]
I'm sorry to say that, but you are still enchanted by Tom's original reasoning.
Consider this - the pressure inside Earth body at the equator plane is zero at the "evenspin". Assuming Earth mostly liquid, we must infer pressure is zero inside all the Earth body. The only configuration allowing zero pressure is a completely flattened Earth, which means the planet sheds itself into rings as it only approaches the "evenspin", being squeezed by the still pushing polar areas.


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I think I see the problem now. If by "inside the Earth's body" you mean that the pressure is zero all the way to the center you are mistaken. At even spin the material on the equatorial plane *at the surface* is moving at orbital speed. Gravity *at the surface* is balanced by centrifugal force. Presure is zero.

1270 km straight down from the equator (still at even spin condition) material is only moving at 90% of orbital velocity, and gravity exceeds centrifugal force. Pressure is not zero here (but it is less than if there were no spin) even though we are still in the equatorial plane. The closer we get to the center the higher the pressure. Solid, liquid or gas.


Regards,
LB