Torsion Fields and the Meta Model

Forgot a link. Notice "massless".
ptp.ipap.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle?magazine=...ge=633-647&volume=71

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by brantc</i>
<br />I've been doing some reading torsion fields and it seems like they are a real entity.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I think few would agree with you. What leads you to that conclusion?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I've have read about some of the experiments of N.A. Kozyrev and also the work of Myron Evans on his GUFT. Myron doesn't call them that but from looking at his work that's what they are. I think.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Again, what makes you think that? I'm not aware of any connection or concept overlap.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm wondering if there is a place in the Meta Model for them.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Do you have something in mind? Start with a consistent definition of "torsion field".

MM defines its concepts in physical terms, then uses math to describe properties of physical entities. That leads to specific predictions, usually with no adjustable parameters, no degrees of freedom, and no room for re-interpretation. By contrast, the approach used at the link you gave and in Evans' work is to define things in math terms and then to free-associate physical properties. That makes the concepts physically vague, fuzzy, and adjustable on the fly as new observations come in. And that makes such concepts unfalsifiable, which in turn makes them unscientific. (I realize that the practice is nonetheless common in the hard sciences today.)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Also could they (torsion fields) explain the extra heating in planets?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">One could potentially hypothesize any physical properties one pleases. Why not add the Pioneer anomaly, dark matter, dark energy, and the solution to the twins' paradox?

What exactly do you see about torsion fields would allow them to continually create new heat energy where none existed before?

There is a place for mathematical thinking, but it is overrated in physics. -|Tom|-

Big ole quote. I wonder if his detector actually worked? I mean this all could be made up.

"Obviously, the biggest unanswered challenge at this point would be how such energy could be mechanically detected. After all, it has completely eluded the mainstream for well over a century. Here, it is important to remember that though the forces of torsion waves on matter are relatively small, they do exert a steady push. Research of Shipov, Terletskiy and other Russian theorists have directly associated the energy of torsion fields with the energy of gravity, thus leading to the term “gravispin energy” and the science of “gravispinorics.” In these new theories, gravity and spin are coupled in the same basic manner as electrostatics and magnetism join to form the electromagnetic wave. Though torsion waves can travel in any direction, they are most typically absorbed into the downward flow of the gravitational field. So, the strongest effects of the pressure of torsion waves would be a slight spiraling movement that is joined with gravity. Since it is a very subtle pressure, we do not typically notice any such movement in ourselves or in falling objects.

One of the most basic detectors of “time flow” energy that Kozyrev used was the “torsion balance,” meaning that it was a balance beam that could spin freely as it was suspended from a thread. As described in Kozyrev’s first paper for the year 1971, the torsion balance did not have an equal distribution of weight on either side, as one end of the beam weighed ten grams and the other end was only one gram. Kozyrev suspended this beam with a string (filament) of capron that was 30 micrometers in diameter and 5-10 centimeters long. The string was attached much closer to the heavier end of the beam than the lighter end, so that the beam would remain in a perfect horizontal position under the effects of gravity. This positioning also created greater stress within the beam itself, making it move very easily. The lighter end of the beam was fashioned into a pointer, so that Kozyrev could measure on a protractor how many degrees the beam had moved at any time.

In order to avoid being influenced by the atmosphere, the entire system was sealed under a glass cap so that all of the air inside could be vacuumed out. Furthermore, Kozyrev surrounded the cap with a metal net (similar to a Faraday cage) so that all known electromagnetic influences would be shielded."

Most importantly, the top of the filament, where the beam balance was hanging from, was mechanically vibrated by an electromagnetic device. (To float the beam.)

Some of Kozyrev’s experiments seemed almost deceptively simple, considering the effects that he was able to achieve. For example, the simple raising and lowering of a 10-kg weight would exert torsional pressure on a pendulum at a distance of 2-3 meters, an effect which would even travel through walls. The pendulum that was used as a detector was shielded in glass under a vacuum, so this effect could not have been caused by the air. Again, the key component to the experiment was that the top of the string needed to be vibrated in order to introduce the extra tension and movement that would allow the pressure of the torsion waves to be picked up by the pendulum. This is another experiment that shows how the sheer mass of the 10-kilogram weight behaves like a sponge in water, creating “ripples” in the surrounding “water” when it is moved up and down. Again, this is a basic property of matter.

ascension2000.com/DivineCosmos/01.htm
See Section 1.5

What about the simple effect of gravity? It isn't shielded, but is surprisingly large for bodies on one another. We fail to notice only because Earth's gravity is usually stronger. But the "tidal" force would produce a torque. Moreover, the gravitational tidal force at the surface of <i>any</i> sphere with average density equal to Earth's would be the same as that from the whole Earth (for objects at Earth's surface).

Why hypothesize a mystery force when a known one may explain the experiments? -|Tom|-