- Thank you received: 0
Requiem for Relativity
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
17 years 10 months ago #16468
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
My brown dwarf (or planet) is Lowell's Planet X.
Based on discrepancies in the orbit of Uranus from 1715 to 1914, P Lowell predicted a "Planet X" (as in x, the variable) of 0.00002 solar mass, 44 AU from the sun (WG Hoyt, "Planets X & Pluto", 1980, pp. 136-140). Lowell's expected eccentricity, 0.20, renders the tidal force of such a planet roughly 34% as effective as if it simply were stationary. Multiplying by the ratio of the cubes of the closest distances to Uranus (360-19.2 vs. 43.85-19.2), then gives 0.018 solar mass for my planet, vs. my predicted 0.019.
Lowell predicted the perihelion of Planet X to be 201.7 deg ecliptic longitude; or, 180 deg therefrom (dual solution). Lowell relied heavily on Flamsteed's 1715 observations of Uranus and on Lowell's own, then-recent, observations. He also used many observations in between. My planet would move 0.58/11*187 = 9.9 degree retrograde in the 187 yrs from the midpoint of Lowell's data, 1815, to 2002. So, if the CMB dipole is toward Planet X, Lowell's work would predict the CMB dipole at 201.7-9.9=191.8 ecliptic longitude, vs. 171.8 observed.
Based on discrepancies in the orbit of Uranus from 1715 to 1914, P Lowell predicted a "Planet X" (as in x, the variable) of 0.00002 solar mass, 44 AU from the sun (WG Hoyt, "Planets X & Pluto", 1980, pp. 136-140). Lowell's expected eccentricity, 0.20, renders the tidal force of such a planet roughly 34% as effective as if it simply were stationary. Multiplying by the ratio of the cubes of the closest distances to Uranus (360-19.2 vs. 43.85-19.2), then gives 0.018 solar mass for my planet, vs. my predicted 0.019.
Lowell predicted the perihelion of Planet X to be 201.7 deg ecliptic longitude; or, 180 deg therefrom (dual solution). Lowell relied heavily on Flamsteed's 1715 observations of Uranus and on Lowell's own, then-recent, observations. He also used many observations in between. My planet would move 0.58/11*187 = 9.9 degree retrograde in the 187 yrs from the midpoint of Lowell's data, 1815, to 2002. So, if the CMB dipole is toward Planet X, Lowell's work would predict the CMB dipole at 201.7-9.9=191.8 ecliptic longitude, vs. 171.8 observed.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
17 years 10 months ago #16535
by Stoat
Replied by Stoat on topic Reply from Robert Turner
If I remember rightly, the hunt for Nemesis was skewed, because people were looking for a brown dwarf object, that had a large eccentricity, to account for a supposed 30 million year cometary extinction cyle on earth. There was also the point you made about the brown dwarf being rather bright, so have it way out at aphelion to cover why it couldn't be found.
Now, there wasn't just a proposed planet X but a whole, rather embarrassing, slew of them put forward. That might make working astronomers a little slow to give you some telescope time, and hunt down old plates. (Have all those old plates been scanned into a data base I wonder?) I found this www.tls-tautenburg.de/scanner.html Might have something.
You do realise, that you are going to have to call it the planet Stoat [][][8D]
Now, there wasn't just a proposed planet X but a whole, rather embarrassing, slew of them put forward. That might make working astronomers a little slow to give you some telescope time, and hunt down old plates. (Have all those old plates been scanned into a data base I wonder?) I found this www.tls-tautenburg.de/scanner.html Might have something.
You do realise, that you are going to have to call it the planet Stoat [][][8D]
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
17 years 10 months ago #19181
by shando
Replied by shando on topic Reply from Jim Shand
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joe Keller</i>
<br />My brown dwarf (or planet) is Lowell's Planet X.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Joe, what would be the period of your dwarf?
How many of our years would it take to circle the sun?
<br />My brown dwarf (or planet) is Lowell's Planet X.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Joe, what would be the period of your dwarf?
How many of our years would it take to circle the sun?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
17 years 10 months ago #16377
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoat</i>
<br />If I remember rightly, the hunt for Nemesis was skewed, because people were looking for a brown dwarf object, that had a large eccentricity, to account for a supposed 30 million year cometary extinction cyle on earth. There was also the point you made about the brown dwarf being rather bright, so have it way out at aphelion to cover why it couldn't be found.
Now, there wasn't just a proposed planet X but a whole, rather embarrassing, slew of them put forward. That might make working astronomers a little slow to give you some telescope time, and hunt down old plates. (Have all those old plates been scanned into a data base I wonder?) I found this www.tls-tautenburg.de/scanner.html Might have something.
You do realise, that you are going to have to call it the planet Stoat [][][8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thanks for your input, especially the link - what a find! Let's try it! If you find Planet X first, then you're the discoverer! The given error bars of the CMB dipole coordinates might be too large. Also, the planet might be at exactly the positive (or maybe negative, if I'm wrong) CMB dipole. Coordinates to follow.
<br />If I remember rightly, the hunt for Nemesis was skewed, because people were looking for a brown dwarf object, that had a large eccentricity, to account for a supposed 30 million year cometary extinction cyle on earth. There was also the point you made about the brown dwarf being rather bright, so have it way out at aphelion to cover why it couldn't be found.
Now, there wasn't just a proposed planet X but a whole, rather embarrassing, slew of them put forward. That might make working astronomers a little slow to give you some telescope time, and hunt down old plates. (Have all those old plates been scanned into a data base I wonder?) I found this www.tls-tautenburg.de/scanner.html Might have something.
You do realise, that you are going to have to call it the planet Stoat [][][8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thanks for your input, especially the link - what a find! Let's try it! If you find Planet X first, then you're the discoverer! The given error bars of the CMB dipole coordinates might be too large. Also, the planet might be at exactly the positive (or maybe negative, if I'm wrong) CMB dipole. Coordinates to follow.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
17 years 10 months ago #19182
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
Three likely theories give coordinates for "Planet X":
I. It is at the (+/-) CMB dipole.
II. Same as (I) but with adjustment for the theoretical gravitational effect of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, & mainly Neptune.
III. Same as (II) but with additional adjustment for various other "Planets X".
(I) is least likely. (III) is least useful.
The error bars I'll give are mainly due to the error bars of the 3-yr. WMAP coordinates, because the extrapolation is so small. These are:
0.07 degree of great circle arc either way along the direction of galactic longitude (i.e., 0.1 degree of galactic longitude)
0.04 degree (either way) of galactic latitude
That's an "error ellipse" whose axis will be tilted, in any other coordinate system. It's an acceptable approximation simply to say that the error is 0.07 degree (0.28m or 17s) of Right Ascension and 0.04 degree (2.4') of Declination.
I. Positive CMB dipole, extrapolated coordinates for March 1, 2007:
l = 236.70 b = +48.26
In celestial coordinates:
RA 11h 11m 02s Decl -6deg 48' 45"
(on March 1, 2007)(J2000.0 coordinates)
The monthly change is:
RA -0.38 s/month Decl +4.9"/month
This is ideal observing position: south of the tail of Leo, high in the eastern sky before midnight, in a region with rather few stars.
Ecliptic coordinates (2007.25):
ecliptic longitude 171deg26'41"
ecliptic latitude -11deg6'06"
Per degree of inclination, only half as many asteroids have inclinations of 11 deg as of 0 deg. Furthermore a circular orbit inclined 11 degrees averages only 7 degrees ecliptic latitude. This helps reduce the number of asteroids in view.
II. The adjustment for the four gas giant planets, is +0.226deg ecliptic long. & -0.034deg ecliptic lat.; this gives:
ecliptic longitude (2007.25) 171deg40'15"
ecliptic latitude (2007.25) -11deg08'08"
RA 11h12m08s Decl -6deg55'53"
The monthly change per this theory is:
RA -0.83 s/month Decl +10.7"/month
III. The additional adjustment for an Earth-mass planet at 62 AU, ecliptic long 261, ecliptic lat +63.5 (I chose these coordinates for convenience of estimation, but they correspond very roughly to the "Planet X" inferred above from Davies' Madiera CMB observations) is:
ecliptic longitude (2007.25) 171deg35'36"
ecliptic latitude (2007.25) -11deg21'46"
RA 11h11m23s Decl -7deg10'20"
The adjustment for JL Brady's Jupiter-mass planet (if it were to exist) would be about a radian.
The range of possibilities I-III, plus just over two error bars each way, give a circular search region of radius 17 arcminutes (area 0.25 sq degree) and center:
RA 11h11m35s Decl -6deg59'33"
I. It is at the (+/-) CMB dipole.
II. Same as (I) but with adjustment for the theoretical gravitational effect of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, & mainly Neptune.
III. Same as (II) but with additional adjustment for various other "Planets X".
(I) is least likely. (III) is least useful.
The error bars I'll give are mainly due to the error bars of the 3-yr. WMAP coordinates, because the extrapolation is so small. These are:
0.07 degree of great circle arc either way along the direction of galactic longitude (i.e., 0.1 degree of galactic longitude)
0.04 degree (either way) of galactic latitude
That's an "error ellipse" whose axis will be tilted, in any other coordinate system. It's an acceptable approximation simply to say that the error is 0.07 degree (0.28m or 17s) of Right Ascension and 0.04 degree (2.4') of Declination.
I. Positive CMB dipole, extrapolated coordinates for March 1, 2007:
l = 236.70 b = +48.26
In celestial coordinates:
RA 11h 11m 02s Decl -6deg 48' 45"
(on March 1, 2007)(J2000.0 coordinates)
The monthly change is:
RA -0.38 s/month Decl +4.9"/month
This is ideal observing position: south of the tail of Leo, high in the eastern sky before midnight, in a region with rather few stars.
Ecliptic coordinates (2007.25):
ecliptic longitude 171deg26'41"
ecliptic latitude -11deg6'06"
Per degree of inclination, only half as many asteroids have inclinations of 11 deg as of 0 deg. Furthermore a circular orbit inclined 11 degrees averages only 7 degrees ecliptic latitude. This helps reduce the number of asteroids in view.
II. The adjustment for the four gas giant planets, is +0.226deg ecliptic long. & -0.034deg ecliptic lat.; this gives:
ecliptic longitude (2007.25) 171deg40'15"
ecliptic latitude (2007.25) -11deg08'08"
RA 11h12m08s Decl -6deg55'53"
The monthly change per this theory is:
RA -0.83 s/month Decl +10.7"/month
III. The additional adjustment for an Earth-mass planet at 62 AU, ecliptic long 261, ecliptic lat +63.5 (I chose these coordinates for convenience of estimation, but they correspond very roughly to the "Planet X" inferred above from Davies' Madiera CMB observations) is:
ecliptic longitude (2007.25) 171deg35'36"
ecliptic latitude (2007.25) -11deg21'46"
RA 11h11m23s Decl -7deg10'20"
The adjustment for JL Brady's Jupiter-mass planet (if it were to exist) would be about a radian.
The range of possibilities I-III, plus just over two error bars each way, give a circular search region of radius 17 arcminutes (area 0.25 sq degree) and center:
RA 11h11m35s Decl -6deg59'33"
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
17 years 10 months ago #19183
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by shando</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joe Keller</i>
<br />My brown dwarf (or planet) is Lowell's Planet X.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Joe, what would be the period of your dwarf?
How many of our years would it take to circle the sun?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
These are just the right questions! See post below.
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Joe Keller</i>
<br />My brown dwarf (or planet) is Lowell's Planet X.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Joe, what would be the period of your dwarf?
How many of our years would it take to circle the sun?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
These are just the right questions! See post below.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.524 seconds