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Entrainment of Elysium
- Larry Burford
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18 years 10 months ago #14565
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
NOTE - this is a partial repost of accidentally deleted material
[dholeman] "So I think the static/dynamic issue is resolved."
??? (attention - I suspect a communication problem. Could be either of us, or both.)
===
So, is elysium entrained statically or dynamically by planet and star sized masses?
If dynamically, why do we not detect the elysium wind that must result? Real length contraction in the MMX apparatus, perhaps?
If statically, to what altitude are individual elysons attached to and move with each mass?
If statically to an altitude of at least 0.5 AU for my example of M and m in a great void there must be a boundary zone where one mass of elysons is moving relative to the other mass of elysons (like the analogy that I mentioned in my open post - a vortex ring moving through the stationary air molecules in my living room.). Might this result in phenomena that are detectable to us at this time? Might we already have data that supports or refutes such a boundary zone.
===
Don - The issue I'm trying to resolve is related more to the bulk behavior of elysium near large masses than to the properties or composition of individual elysons. Like I said earlier, the composition of elysons will probably need to be comprehended before a complete answer to the question of entrainment can be had, but for now I want to keep the focus well above the quantum and sub-quantum scales.
You lean toward dynamic entrainment, I lean toward static entrainment. IMO, our inability to detect an elysium wind rules out dynamic entrainment. This is an existing experimental result that must be accounted for in any attempt to decide between dynamic and static entrainment.
Comments please,
LB
[dholeman] "So I think the static/dynamic issue is resolved."
??? (attention - I suspect a communication problem. Could be either of us, or both.)
===
So, is elysium entrained statically or dynamically by planet and star sized masses?
If dynamically, why do we not detect the elysium wind that must result? Real length contraction in the MMX apparatus, perhaps?
If statically, to what altitude are individual elysons attached to and move with each mass?
If statically to an altitude of at least 0.5 AU for my example of M and m in a great void there must be a boundary zone where one mass of elysons is moving relative to the other mass of elysons (like the analogy that I mentioned in my open post - a vortex ring moving through the stationary air molecules in my living room.). Might this result in phenomena that are detectable to us at this time? Might we already have data that supports or refutes such a boundary zone.
===
Don - The issue I'm trying to resolve is related more to the bulk behavior of elysium near large masses than to the properties or composition of individual elysons. Like I said earlier, the composition of elysons will probably need to be comprehended before a complete answer to the question of entrainment can be had, but for now I want to keep the focus well above the quantum and sub-quantum scales.
You lean toward dynamic entrainment, I lean toward static entrainment. IMO, our inability to detect an elysium wind rules out dynamic entrainment. This is an existing experimental result that must be accounted for in any attempt to decide between dynamic and static entrainment.
Comments please,
LB
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18 years 10 months ago #17040
by dholeman
Replied by dholeman on topic Reply from Don Holeman
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Like I said earlier, the composition of elysons will probably need to be comprehended before a complete answer to the question of entrainment can be had, but for now I want to keep the focus well above the quantum and sub-quantum scales.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
My posts on the composition of elysons addresses your questions of bulk elysium directly. It's not an aside, it's a fundamental part of understanding how elysium generates entrainment.
Having not convinced you of this I'll withdraw. Sorry again for the muckup with your post.
No great thing was ever created suddenly - Epictitus
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
My posts on the composition of elysons addresses your questions of bulk elysium directly. It's not an aside, it's a fundamental part of understanding how elysium generates entrainment.
Having not convinced you of this I'll withdraw. Sorry again for the muckup with your post.
No great thing was ever created suddenly - Epictitus
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- Larry Burford
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18 years 10 months ago #17293
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
[dhleman] "You're trying to think of elysium as a constituent of matter at the scale of ordinary matter. It's not."
Actually I'm trying to think of elysium as a large assembly of elysons. I agree that elysium is not a constituent of ordinary matter. I would also say that elysons are not constituents of ordinary matter.
===
[dholeman] "My posts on the composition of elysons addresses your questions of bulk elysium directly."
I must have missed that. It might explain the communication problem we are obviously having. I'll go back and re-read your posts.
===
I don't see your your contribution as mucking up my post. It's just a little premature.
I have been planning to start another thread to discuss the composition of individual elysons. Perhaps now is the time to do that? Or maybe I should have done that first?
(I see them quite differently than you do, surprise surprise, but their composition does have significant consequences for the behavior of bulk elysium.)
LB
Actually I'm trying to think of elysium as a large assembly of elysons. I agree that elysium is not a constituent of ordinary matter. I would also say that elysons are not constituents of ordinary matter.
===
[dholeman] "My posts on the composition of elysons addresses your questions of bulk elysium directly."
I must have missed that. It might explain the communication problem we are obviously having. I'll go back and re-read your posts.
===
I don't see your your contribution as mucking up my post. It's just a little premature.
I have been planning to start another thread to discuss the composition of individual elysons. Perhaps now is the time to do that? Or maybe I should have done that first?
(I see them quite differently than you do, surprise surprise, but their composition does have significant consequences for the behavior of bulk elysium.)
LB
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- tvanflandern
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18 years 10 months ago #14578
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br /><u>Dynamic entrainment</u> - as M moves along x, the distortion of the gridwork moves with it. But the bubble of elysons that were tagged blue before M began moving stays centered at the origin of our coordinate system.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">At this point, I'm thinking in terms of dynamic entrainment. Much like water molecules, elysons remain roughly in place as matter zips by, suffering only some temporary, local displacement.
I also think of light as a modest wave in a much denser medium. Then it doesn't matter what the bulk flow of elysium is. The wave expands about a local center and is unaffected by bulk flow for the same reason that matter ignores it. -|Tom|-
<br /><u>Dynamic entrainment</u> - as M moves along x, the distortion of the gridwork moves with it. But the bubble of elysons that were tagged blue before M began moving stays centered at the origin of our coordinate system.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">At this point, I'm thinking in terms of dynamic entrainment. Much like water molecules, elysons remain roughly in place as matter zips by, suffering only some temporary, local displacement.
I also think of light as a modest wave in a much denser medium. Then it doesn't matter what the bulk flow of elysium is. The wave expands about a local center and is unaffected by bulk flow for the same reason that matter ignores it. -|Tom|-
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18 years 10 months ago #17101
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by MarkVitrone</i>
<br />Is it not possible for MI's to simply be larger than elysons. Meaning that more of the volume of an MI is solid. If that were the case the probability of a graviton encountering the MI is greater than the elyson causing the entrainment effect discussed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The definition of MI is the largest particle that is not mostly transparent to gravitons, and which therefore absorbs most or all gravitons that encounter it.
Recall from Slabinski's arguments in <i>Pushing Gravity</i> that most gravitational acceleration results from gravitons impacting entrained elysium around an MI, rather than by direct impacts on the MI itself. -|Tom|-
<br />Is it not possible for MI's to simply be larger than elysons. Meaning that more of the volume of an MI is solid. If that were the case the probability of a graviton encountering the MI is greater than the elyson causing the entrainment effect discussed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The definition of MI is the largest particle that is not mostly transparent to gravitons, and which therefore absorbs most or all gravitons that encounter it.
Recall from Slabinski's arguments in <i>Pushing Gravity</i> that most gravitational acceleration results from gravitons impacting entrained elysium around an MI, rather than by direct impacts on the MI itself. -|Tom|-
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18 years 10 months ago #14579
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dholeman</i>
<br />we can explain how matter ingredients are composed strictly of elysons and their derivatives.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Nice graphics. But in your elyson & derivatives model, how do you get repulsive force?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If the nucleus of the elyson captures a graviton (green) the result is a second degree elyson in which the orbiting particle now has a reduced diameter orbit.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">What is the connection between the added graviton and the attraction of the electron? If it is not being continually bombarded, what makes the electron stay in orbit? -|Tom|-
<br />we can explain how matter ingredients are composed strictly of elysons and their derivatives.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Nice graphics. But in your elyson & derivatives model, how do you get repulsive force?
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If the nucleus of the elyson captures a graviton (green) the result is a second degree elyson in which the orbiting particle now has a reduced diameter orbit.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">What is the connection between the added graviton and the attraction of the electron? If it is not being continually bombarded, what makes the electron stay in orbit? -|Tom|-
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