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21 years 8 months ago #5196 by Gregg
> Triple point be danged, this is to me one of the more convincing >images I've seen out of many hundreds for the existence of liquid >H2O. I can imagine a whole range of metals (salts) that could keep >water liquid at very cold temperatures....

The mechanisms of zone melting and batch distillation will give an aqueous solution with an amazing temperature range from freezing to boiling.

Gregg Wilson

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21 years 8 months ago #5502 by Greg
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
> Triple point be danged, this is to me one of the more convincing >images I've seen out of many hundreds for the existence of liquid >H2O. I can imagine a whole range of metals (salts) that could keep >water liquid at very cold temperatures....

The mechanisms of zone melting and batch distillation will give an aqueous solution with an amazing temperature range from freezing to boiling.

Gregg Wilson
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Here's another interesting one from the Martian South pole.




<img src=" www.harmakhis.org/fluid/m1001115.jpg " border=0>

www.harmakhis.org/fluid/m1001115.jpg.htm

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21 years 8 months ago #5268 by Rob
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Interesting post, Greg. The black areas are, as always intriguing. I can imagine communal life forms utilizing co2 and h2o ices along with sunlight for energy. The oft discussed lethal flood of uv is not a major concern... many earthly microorganisms use various organic pigments such as (pophyrins)as protection from uv, essentially "downshifting" the incoming uv light -- thus gaining energy and protecting sensitive internal structures. I wonder, IF these black stars, spots, streaks etc. are in some cases life forms - perhaps they are using the incoming solar radiation more efficiently(iR, vis, uv) -- thus energy levels approaching those useable<i></i> by earthly prokaryotes - even though Mars is obviously farther from the sun. I realize the majority of the black areas are regarded as some type of Hematite deposits (perhaps Hematite can be used as a protective pigment, and these deposits are partial evidence of life?)-- but the fibonacci branching, changing patterns, proximity to co2 and h2o of these black streaks (in craters at lower latitudes for example) sure make me wonder if they are alive. If info. has been withheld from us regarding something on Mars -- then the cover probably will come off in the upcoming years... too many probes are headed to Mars, the genie (if it exists) can't stay bottled up forever. Sorry for the rambling post, just always have these basic theories cross my mind (not to mention some earth bound ideas on ways to settle this debate!)when I see posts like the one you sent in. I enjoy reading the posts, if you can shoot this possible explanation full of holes(or suggest any alternatives!) -- go for it!

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21 years 8 months ago #5198 by Greg
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<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Interesting post, Greg. The black areas are, as always intriguing. I can imagine communal life forms utilizing co2 and h2o ices along with sunlight for energy. The oft discussed lethal flood of uv is not a major concern... many earthly microorganisms use various organic pigments such as (pophyrins)as protection from uv, essentially "downshifting" the incoming uv light -- thus gaining energy and protecting sensitive internal structures. I wonder, IF these black stars, spots, streaks etc. are in some cases life forms - perhaps they are using the incoming solar radiation more efficiently(iR, vis, uv) -- thus energy levels approaching those useable<i></i> by earthly prokaryotes - even though Mars is obviously farther from the sun. I realize the majority of the black areas are regarded as some type of Hematite deposits (perhaps Hematite can be used as a protective pigment, and these deposits are partial evidence of life?)-- but the fibonacci branching, changing patterns, proximity to co2 and h2o of these black streaks (in craters at lower latitudes for example) sure make me wonder if they are alive. If info. has been withheld from us regarding something on Mars -- then the cover probably will come off in the upcoming years... too many probes are headed to Mars, the genie (if it exists) can't stay bottled up forever. Sorry for the rambling post, just always have these basic theories cross my mind (not to mention some earth bound ideas on ways to settle this debate!)when I see posts like the one you sent in. I enjoy reading the posts, if you can shoot this possible explanation full of holes(or suggest any alternatives!) -- go for it!


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I think hematitie itself is often formed by bacteria so that would be a positive step to find that here. In fact large deposits have already been found on Mars.

It wouldn't be surprising if this was liquid water, the temperature gets to at least -30C in summer on the pole and that's a more constant temperature since the sun doesn't set then. So some areas should get warmer, especially with dark material around to warm up.
It could also be ice from a warmer time in history when water pooled there and froze. The axial tilt of Mars regularly changes and when it gets large enough it is thought the CO2 on the poles could vaporize and the air pressure go up substantially. This would make water on the south pole a virtual certainty since it is so close at least even now.
Did you see the spiders I found almost next to the Viking 2 landing site?

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21 years 8 months ago #5441 by Rob
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You are right about the hematite being in some cases,(perhaps many?) created by microbes..... increasingly here on earth we are finding evidence that various microbes produce or tend to concentrate various minerals -- and even metals! Extremophiles are a most amazing form of life.... although I believe we will continue to discover life in increasingly "unthinkable" forms all around us as time goes by. Really, I would be suprised if there were <i></i>not<i></i> a good deal of plant and microbe life on Mars...... as to other forms, and the potential ramifications -- I only hope we all are allowed to see in the not too distant future, don't know how many more shots we will get, being with human tendencies and world events as they are.
As for the spiders near the Viking site, no I didn't see them - but I will certainly take a look. Have you checked out Gil Levins elegant reverse chirality experiment proposal for any upcoming Mars lander -- and the way it was flatly rejected by NASA? I can tell you, I don't believe I have ever seen such a precise, accurate method to test for the prescense of even the most minute form of life --- the rejction by NASA is most telling indeed. Question for TVF, or anyone with more practical astronomical background.... is it possible to use an earthbound telescope as the means to reach Mars with a Raman Spectrometer? If so, we could answer the life question pretty quickly and easily..... just look for definitive proof of chlorophyll, porphoryins, and a whole host of molecules that cumulatively would have a definite life "signature". (Incidentally, according to some reports, these pigments have already been discovered - but largely ignored!<u></u><i></i><u></u><u></u>

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