T or E

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by rderosa</i>
<br />If one asteroid hitting the Yucatan Pennisula 65Mya caused a global fire, and mass extinctions on Earth...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That's just the current paradigm, which (like most leading-edge paradigms) is almost certainly wrong. A single impact cannot spread its debris farther than about 3000 km because doing so would require ejection speeds higher than the threshold (about 3 km/s) at which the shock ejection vaporizes the rock. However, the K/T boundary (at 65 mya) is now marked by 16 major impacts known so far (with new discoveries every few years). The largest of those impacts was probably on the opposite hemisphere from Chicxulub in the Yucatan, and pierced the crust down to the upper mantle near the present location of India, releasing huge quantities of molton rock. This presumably was the cause of the Deccan Traps in that region -- one of Earth's most prolonged and widespread episodes of volcanism.

The single global fire would have been caused by months of non-stop, super-dense meteors continually bombarding our atmosphere. The smaller debris raining down everywhere would have produced the changes in the atmosphere and oceans, and created some of the hot spots of radioactivity. The heat and fire would have been the primary cause of the mass extinctions.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">how would a civilization living on Body C (a mere moon's distance away) survive the explosion of its parent planet, which not only presumably bombarded the heck out of it, but also knocked it out of its orbit, and into a new orbit with Mars, the other moon.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Even though one hemisphere is shielded from the explosion, most life could not survive such an event. But no proposed civiliztion continued to live on its home world past either explosion.

No explosion is powerful enough to "knock a planet or moon out of its orbit". The new orbit mutual orbit of Mars and Body C is the natural result of suddenly removing parent planet V from the picture.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Somehow, I just can't picture how this notion of hiding on the other side of the planet did them any good.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">There is some confusion here. No civilization survived the big Planet V explosion. The much smaller Body C explosion (the civilization's hypothetical home world) sent debris even as far as Earth. The best place anywhere in the inner solar system to hide from the immediate effects of that blast would be the far side of Mars, following which a relocation elsewhere might have been possible. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by neilderosa</i>
<br />I understood from your papers and book, that the explosion of Planet-V bombarded, and added crustal material and thichkness, etc, to the facing hemisphere, which after the 90 deg. polar shift, became the southern hemishphere, more-or-less. As a result, there should be a clear boundry between the exposed hemisphere and the "protected" hemisphere (protected because it was facing away from the explosion.)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Right, and there is such a boundary, as is evident in Figure 7.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">When you mentioned a <u><b>disruption</b></u> of the dichotomy boudary, (I took "dichotomy" to mean "a division into two parts that are sharply distiguished and opposed," i.e., the two very different looking hemispheres), I thought you were referring to a <u><b>disruption</b></u> of this clear boundary caused by the explosion of Planet-V. I of course assumed you meant that it was the later explosion of Body-C that did the disruptiing, or blurring of the boundary.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Right again.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The reason I asked you to show me was that I would like to see something that can be interpreted as evidence of the Body-C explosion, as opposed to the Planet-V explosion. That was what I meant. Is there?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Apparently, this is another case of where something has become so familiar to me that I mistakenly expect others to instantly see what I saw after lengthy study. Here's a smaller version of the preceding picture with the Planet V hemispheric boundary marked in white (with my wobbly freehand). I've added Figure 7 underneath it for comparison.

Now the trick is to allow for the upper figure being a Meractor projection, while the lower one is a flat projection of a hemisphere onto a circle. [The equator is normal in Mercator, but high latitudes get stretched, with the pole (not shown) potentially taking up the full width of the image. The hemispheric boundary is a sine way in the upper image, and a straight line in the lower one.] Then allow for the rotational difference; i.e., zero longitude is not quite lined up. To aid with that, I marked Argyre with "A" and Hellas with "H" in both images. You can also plainly see the big three Tharsis volcanoes and Olympus Mons just above and left of them in both images. They are in the leftmost quadrant just slightly above the equator. The longitude grid in the lower image may also help the comparison.

Does this help to see that the original boundary is there, but something has disrupted it on the left hemisphere? The flood evidence (not shown here) relates primarily to the same disruption area. -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Here's a smaller version of the preceding picture with the Planet V hemispheric boundary marked in white [Tom]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Thanks for making this effort. Basically I see the great circle which (on the globe map) is a line of roughly a 30 deg. diagonal with the equator, and this line marks the boundary between the north as south hemisphere as they are now. The cause of the dichotomy and boundary was apparently the P-V explosion.

I see also that the Tharsis bulge is the exception to the rule. But I thought the Tharsis region was formed as a consequence or reaction of the catostrophic event. Like when you punch a beachball and there's pressure on it on the other side to bulge out. So are you saying that the Tharsis bulge was caused by the second oxplosion (Body-C)? Can you give us some referrence on the formation of Tharsis that would be consistant with your model?

Thanks,

Neil

[neilderosa] " ... and this line marks the boundary between the north as south hemisphere as they are now ... "

I was thinking that this line is the boundary between the original facing and opposing hemispheres at the moment of the explosion of planet V. ("Moment" is a relative term. An explosion this large would take perhaps a dozen minutes to happen, and the blast and debris waves would be dozens (?) of minutes to hours thick as they swept past Mars, and thicker still as they spread outward beyond the local area.)

???,
LB

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br />There is some confusion here. No civilization survived the big Planet V explosion. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Near the bottom of "New Evidence for Artificiality", you said this:

"In the scenario described earlier, Body C was also orbiting Planet V at the time of the explosion, and perhaps became gravitationally bound to Mars following the explosion. It therefore seems plausible, given that the Cydonia landforms are artificial, that the Cydonia builders’ home planet was Body C, accounting for the absence of overt evidence for an advanced civilization on the surface of Mars. Body C would have suffered a fate similar to Mars when Planet V exploded. However, the side facing away from Planet V would have been spared the main force of the explosion, and suffered less direct impact than even distant Earth. So we can picture that part of the builders’ civilization was spared by taking refuge on the far side of Body C, or perhaps by escaping to that moon from Planet V before the latter’s demise. "

That's why I said I had a hard time picturing how taking refuge on the far side of the Body C was going to do anyone any good. Especially in light of what happened to earth at the K/T boundary.

rd

Here's a reduced cropping of the Hellas Basin. After our disscussions on the subject prompted us to do some homework, Rich pointed out that you can actually see (fairly) clear evidence that this huge basin was made after most of the "shoulder-to-shoulder" craters in the southern hemisphere. Around the border of the basin in the "blast zone," I guess you could call it, you can see the older surrounding craters in various stages of being buried or vaporized by the Hellas event. For another thing, there are very few craters inside the basin.

Now, we have a "catch-22" situation here. In order to show you good detail, I would have to download a very big image. So this is just a reduced version of what I mean. For more detail you can go to the link and download the 18 mb image and explore it yourself.

I'm not drawing any conclusions here (re: EPH). This is just interesting. Here's the basin:



And the link:

ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/mola.html

If that doesn't work you can do it the old fashoned way: Google, MOLA SCIENCE INVESTIGATION, MAPPING AND EXTENDED MISSION RESULTS, A HIGH RESOLUTION GLOBAL SHADED MAP[8D]

Neil

p.s. Read the instructions to see how to access the hi-res image.