Why I disagree with static eternal universe

Jim,

Entropy and Newtons second law of thermodynamic are not an invention of man, but a fundamental reality of all energy flow in the universe.

On a universal scale the process of entropy is not that obvious to us, but we know the universe had dissipated its almost infinite energy and zero entropy down to the almost average absolute zero temperature of the universe we know now.

The last astronomic findings show that instead of slowing down, the universe expansion is acceleration and soon will begin to expand into infinity at exponential ever increasing expotential rate

Two possible final outcomes are

1) Heat Death (maximum infinite entropy)

The 'heat-death' of the universe is when the universe has reached a state of maximum entropy. This happens when all available energy (such as from a hot source) has moved to places of less energy (such as a colder source). Once this has happened, no more work can be extracted from the universe. Since heat ceases to flow, no more work can be acquired from heat transfer. This same kind of equilibrium state will also happen with all other forms of energy (mechanical, electrical, etc.). Since no more work can be extracted from the universe at that point, it is effectively dead, especially for the purposes of humankind.


2) Cold Death
This concept is quite different from what is commonly referred to as 'cold death.' 'Cold death' is when the universe continues to expand forever. Because of this expansion, the universe continues to cool down. Eventually, the universe will be too cold to support any life; it will end in a in abbysimal dark cold


The universe actually expresses a grand scale natural preference toward the most economical form of energy dissipation, so if the second law of thermodynamics is telling us that the entropy of our expanding universe increases with every action, then the entropic principle is telling us that this will occur by the most energy efficient means possible, since the flatness of the universe is one of the many coincidentally ecobalanced requirements of the principle.

The second law of thermodynamics points the arrow of time, then the entropic principle determines that time and work is maximized.

We actually have evidence that the near-flat yet expanding universe is structured so that the entropy of the universe always increases in a manner that tends toward "maximum-energy" and maximum uniformity via the most-even form of energy dissipation possible, given that "nothing is perfect to start with"... so to speak.

Meaning that far-from equilibrium dissipative structures *can* serve as a natural damping mechanism... IF the universe is finite and causally bound...

We have no stability mechanism that explains why an expanding universe doesn't just blow itself apart, and even then, the entropy of our near-flat universe is much less than it should be, given any practical model of structure forming turbulence that occurs with expansion.

Unless far from equilibrium dissipative structures, (like us, humans, and black holes), serve to conserve the expansion process in order to maximize energy. Surely, the configuration of our universe must follow the least action principle.

Quantum mechanics depends very much on Hamiltonian mechanics, and so it isn't inherently able to describe dissipative structuring. This can be done, however, by way of a special master case for the "Lindblad equation", which derives that flatness acts as a natural harmonic damper mechanism that keeps the imbalanced expanding universe from evolving inhomogeneously, so this is the most natural configuration.

This will necessarily maximize the time that the expansion process takes, and that's what a flat universe accomplishes via entropic structuring.
Current status

Entropy is a huge subject and I put forward my belief that with all present data related to it the universe will continue to expand forever and die a cold death

Alan



I feel as if I am a small boy holding but a teaspoon of knowledge standing before the Infinity Ocean of all knowledge

Sorry Alan but I think you are wrong---we live in a continuous creation Universe that is in equilibrium. Here is why: The Universe can never 'loose energy' because there is only one Universe. Where would it loose it too???? Now, entropy exists in any given isolated system as a life cycle, but in the bigger picture this energy is always recycled. So, again space is infinite, flat, does not curve, is not a substance, only substances exist in space, substances may only exist for a short time, but they are always formed in dual relationships with a forward and reverse time paired matter and antimatter. Again, Hoyle, Arp, and Tom Van Flandern the featured scientist at this message board are correct that BIG BANG never happened. So, energy can either be cold or hot, and infact energy has nothing to do with heat---HEAT is caused by friction from GRAVITY. So, you cannot measure energy levels using a heat index. An antigravity craft runs very cold, has a higher level of energy than any carbon based fueled aircraft and certainly can move at extreme speeds without friction. So, again you see we have very primitive notions of reality on this planet. John

Heat is a result of energy and mass interplay. Heat can be moved in and out of mass and the entropy of the mass changes as a result. Its just a method used to predict how heat can be transfered from place to place.

The topic is too far from actually possible evaluations to be discussed seriously. Science implies that there are lot of things that we cannot study at a time: Jupiter did not explain electricity, biology started to be a scientific topic in the 19th century...

Our laws of physics may be very precisely verified (Maxwell's equations, in despite of the absurd quantum electrodynamics...), but we must accept that they may have limits.

Thermodynamics, founded on statistics, has a fundamental limit for small systems. Does it has at cosmic size? Yes, if the foundation of its statistic fails. It can fail if the objects on which the statistic is founded lose their individuality. It could be the case if the evolution of the Universe were: Matter concentrates into stars which become neutron stars. The neutrons disappear into neutrinos. Neutrinos use hydrogen atoms as catalyst (model) to build new atoms.
This is not very serious, but better evolutions may be thought, which decrease the entropy by a destruction and rebuild of the objects used to build statistically thermodynamics.

I do not set an answer, but show that I am now unable to set one.

JMB

It is perhaps the most serious topic you have ever discussed and it is precisely due to entropy that one day you will die and your body decay and return to dust



Firstly where is the evidence for continual creation. There is no such thing as energy at absolute zer where everything stops If you state you are scientist then proove to me that your theory is not theory but fact by imperical scientific evidence

Entropy althiugh I admit is a mathematical consept stated that on the maco level egergy will and must flow from a hot state into a cold state of heat sink
Entropy can never be reversed on the huge macro universe scale and the universe withh reach a heat death if is is a closed system and a cold death if it is an open systen with all the egergy dissipating into the infinfite cold heat sink of the infinite vois of space


A simple example may clarify this point. Consider a house with two room infinitely insualted divided by a frictionless sliding partition with a fan or propeller betwwen the two insulated rooms.

The one room is at almost infinite heat pressure and pressure. The other room is at absolute zro and a complete vacuum

We open the frictionless door deviding the two rooms , the energy form the infinitely low high temperature room rishes and expands into the cold roon vacuum or heat snk of that micro systen and the fan of propeeler spind madely and sopts

No futher work can can be extracted from the system even thoiught all the energy is still in this micro system .This is heat death. The fan will never move again even given an etrnity. A state of equalibrium has been reached

If the system were open with the second room being an infinite vacuum, the fan will run for a much longer time but eventyually stop when all the energy is dissapted into the infiite heat sink or second room. This is Cold death

In a big gruch type universe we canuse the analogy of someone bousing a rubber ball. The first bounce will be very high , the next lower and lower antill it stops bouncing. Entropy wins again
Thi is a very simplified example of entropy, entropy can be seen all around us ,things get old, buildinds become ruines, stars die and when e look into the mirrow we see ourselves geeting olfder and older

Entropy is the reason we die there simly is no free lucnch and no way as far as I can see to get around it or reverve it on the grand scale of the whole universe.

To keep the entropic state of a system low costant new energy must be pumped into the system , so my question where is the additional egergy coming from to keep the entropic state of the entire universe low?

It is impossible to take energy and heat from a cold room and make it colder and heat the other room up by this energy extracted from the cold room reduce the entropic state of the system

Alan






I feel as if I am a small boy holding but a teaspoon of knowledge standing before the Infinity Ocean of all knowledge

Hi Alan, Our Earth is rotating at 1000 miles per hour around its axis, and moving at 67,000 miles per hour around the sun. Do you feel any of this motion? NO You do not. Why? Because of the Gravity field around our planet we do not feel any motion except when we push against the lines of force. So, all atomic structure is part of a large motion that is not caused by space curvature but is caused by a faster than light interaction with gravitons. We are part of a large cycling of energy. ENERGY is not static it is in constant EXTREME motion but it appears to be static in a gravity field.

We are living beings that die and so of course as a localized system their is entropy, however all of this energy is recycled it did not go away and heat again is important for our survival but it is not a true indication of energy levels. Because, if gravitons exist so do antigravitons. You cannot have matter without having antimatter, so now antigravitons reduce friction and run cold [in forward time antigravitons run cold, in reverse time they run hot] and if this is true then the bulk condition in overal universe is negative entropy. Universe is constantly organizing mass in motion between matter and antimatter rotations.

The new paradigm will blow away existing notions that are limited to thermodynamic rules that only apply within gravity fields. Gravitons are the cause for mass fluctuations, atomic motion, and stream into our galaxy at faster than light speeds. Antimatter induction is taking place at the core of our galaxy. 3000 light year long jets of antimatter are streaming out of the black hole at the center of our galaxy. Clouds of antimatter are pushed away from the galaxy by a reverse motion antimatter magnetic field and antigravitons being generated by core. So, energy is pouring into and out of our galaxy, this is a dynamic system that creates the ideal situation for mass to accumulate around suns and for life to evolve within gravity fields. We do not feel any of this motion. Yet we live in a raging storm that is moving through space at extreme speeds and the galaxy itself is moving at 1.4 million miles per hour towards Virgo. Now can you see that everything is energy? ....We can tap into this graviton energy and whenever we do tap into it we get huge numbers that are 1000 per cent greater than what we anticipated by normal conservation rules. Gravitons create extreme heat, here is an example the MAHG reactor disassociates atomic hydrogen from being bound by gravitons into a molecular hydrogen in a vacuum tube at 10% atmosphere, breaking these bonds creates 1,400 degree's kelvin with a low voltage pulsed generator. Another example, black light power hydrogen plasma creates 1000% gain from sustained proprietary reactions that claims to lower the ground state of hydrogen. Where does this excess energy come from? Gravitons. Same with cathode anode electrical arcs, you can access virtual electrons and create a net gain it has been proven that arcs create an opening to what I believe is this graviton source that is always circulating through the system. So, there is a lot more energy available because we live in a perpetual motion machine. The laws of conservation of energy do not take into account that there is an unlimited source of GRAVITON energy cycling through the system that is why we have such extreme flipping rates within proton quark and antiquark mesons taking place at 3 trillion times per second. This extreme motion is being kept in place by gravity fields. John