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Quantized redshift anomaly
19 years 6 months ago #12585
by Tommy
Replied by Tommy on topic Reply from Thomas Mandel
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19 years 6 months ago #12589
by JMB
Replied by JMB on topic Reply from Jacques Moret-Bailly
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tommy</i>
<br />Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field, except, maybe at very high frequencies: The absorption of a wave is its complete cancellation by an exactly opposite wave (every where, at every time opposite electric and magnetic fields). As the fields emitted by the small (atomic...) usual sources are very high close to these sources, their absorptions requires a lot of similar sources, a lot of time. Thus, it remains a field which is named stochastic, zero point...
<br />Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field, except, maybe at very high frequencies: The absorption of a wave is its complete cancellation by an exactly opposite wave (every where, at every time opposite electric and magnetic fields). As the fields emitted by the small (atomic...) usual sources are very high close to these sources, their absorptions requires a lot of similar sources, a lot of time. Thus, it remains a field which is named stochastic, zero point...
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19 years 6 months ago #12590
by Tommy
Replied by Tommy on topic Reply from Thomas Mandel
Morey B King writes engineering books. So far what I have quoted from him came from one of his books. Just after I linked to the plasma ball picture aboe, I went to google and typed in plasmiod zpe and selected the first one to come up. It is this
www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/tapzeropointenergy.htm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<center>Tapping Zero-Point Energy
by Moray B. King
P.O. Box 859
Provo, UT 84603
ABSTRACT </center>
The hypothesis for tapping the zero-point energy (ZPE) arises by combining the theories of the ZPE with the theories of system self-organization. The vacuum polarization of atomic nuclei might allow their synchronous motion to activate a ZPE coherence.
Experimentally observed plasma ion-acoustic anomalies as well as inventions utilizing cycloid ion motions may offer supporting evidence. The suggested experiment of rapidly circulating a charged plasma in a vortex ring might induce a sufficient zero-point energy interaction to manifest a gravitational anomaly. An invention utilizing abrupt E field rotation to create virtual charge exhibits excessive energy output.
INTRODUCTION
Today's physics might allow the possibility of tapping virtually limitless quantities of energy directly from the fabric of space.
Such a surprising conjecture arises by merging two separate theoretical areas of modern physics:
1) The theories of the zero-point energy (1-5) (ZPE) that model the vacuum as containing real, energetic fluctuations of electric field energy, and 2) the theories of system self-organization (6-13) which not only open the possibility of inducing coherence in this energy, but also provide the underlying principles on how this could be achieved (10).
At first this hpyothesis might seem to be a blatant violation of the conservation of energy. But the key question is: Does the zero-point energy REALLY exist?
If so, a real energy is already present and its conservation would not be an issue.
The real issue centers on how random fluctuations could become coherent. Any spontaneous coherence seems to violate the second law of thermodynamics, which is generally understood to mean systems should evolve toward random behavior, not toward coherence.
This point is thoroughly discussed in the theories of system self- organization (11,12). Prigogine (13) won the 1977 Nobel prize in chemistry for defining the conditions under which a system could evolve from randomness toward coherence. The conditions are that the system must be far from equilibrium, nonlinear in its dynamics and have an energy flux through it.
These conditions are expressed in general system theory terms, and it turns out that the already published theories of the ZPE can, under certain circumstances, fulfill these conditions. Despite the intriguing possibility offered by system theory, no purely theoretical discussion could ever prove that the zero-point energy could be tapped as an energy source. Only an experiment coupled with the theory would be convincing. This article discusses how observed anomalies associated with the ion-acoustic oscillations in plasmas could be a manifestation of a coherent ZPE interaction and in particular, how the cycloid motion of a a plasma's nuclei might induce a sufficient ZPE coherence to manifest a gravitational anomaly.
This article also highlights an invention which utilizes the abrupt rotation of electric fields to cause an hypothesized pair production of virtual charges from the vacuum energy across a macroscopic system. The invention reportedly outputs excessive power while free running. The invention reportedly outputs excessive power while free running, and its full disclosure may constitute an experiment which could be repeated by the scientific community.
THE FABRIC OF SPACE
Does the fabric of empty space really contain a plenum of energy? This question has been debated throughout the history of science.
The early scientists through the 19th century believed in the existence of an ether, which was modeled as a material substance that could support the wave propagation of light.
The famous Michelson-Morley experiment failed to detect the expected ether wind produced by the earth's motion through it. At the turn of the cnetury Einstein used this result to support the theory of special relativity. When this became accepted, the scientific community rejected the existence of the ether. Thus classical physicists came to consider the vacuum of space to be truly empty.
The classical model was only to last until the 1930's when quantum mechanics became accepted. From quantum mechanics arose a mathematical term in the description of the ground state of any oscillating system called the zero-point energy.
The term "zero-point" refers to zero degrees Kelvin which means this energy exists even in the absence of all heat. The energy was interpreted as being INHERENT TO THE FABRIC OF SPACE ITSELF.
Dirac (14) showed how electron-positron pair production could arise from the vacuum fluctuations and quantum electrodynamics was born.
The Heisenberg uncertaintly principle allowed quantum mechanical systems to "borrow" this energy for short periods of time. The ether came back into science not modeled as a material substance but rather as a randomly fluctuating energy. Could a space filled with fluctuations of electric flux be consistent with special relativity? Boyer (15) showed that, by invoking the postulate of Lorentz invariance, the spectral energy density p of the zero-point fluctuations must have the particular form as a function of frequency w : p(w) = kw3 where the constant k is related to Planck's constant. This result gives a quantitative basis to the theory of random electrodynamics which strives to show that quantum mechanical effects arise FROM MATTER'S INTERACTION WITH THE ZERO-POINT ENERGY.
This cubic frequency relation implies an absurd result: the energy density of the ZPE AT EACH POINT IN SPACE is INFINITE!
A similar problem plagues quantum electrodynamics where infinities are renormalized away. Some type of frequency cutoff is required to create a finite, quantitative theory.
Wheeler (16) applied the theory of general relativity to the ZPE to create a natural cutoff in his theory of geometrodynamics. In general relativity the fabric of space curves as a function of energy density. When the density becomes sufficiently great, space pinches like it's forming a black hole. This gives rise to the formation of hyperspace structures that Wheeler called "wormholes." His calculation yielded microscopic channels on the order of 10-33 (to the -33rd) cm having a (mass equivalent) energy density of 10+94 (to the 94th) grams/cm3 (cubed).
The resulting view is that the fabric of space consists of constantly forming and annihilating pairs of microscopic "mini" blackholes and whiteholes which channel electric flux into and out of our three dimensional space. These mini holes manifest dynamics which could be modeled as a turbulent, virtual plasma that Wheeler calls the "quantum foam." In this view the elementary particles are like bubbles or vortices arising from the dynamics of the vacuum energy. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The remainder of this paper is at www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/tapzeropointenergy.htm
www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/tapzeropointenergy.htm
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<center>Tapping Zero-Point Energy
by Moray B. King
P.O. Box 859
Provo, UT 84603
ABSTRACT </center>
The hypothesis for tapping the zero-point energy (ZPE) arises by combining the theories of the ZPE with the theories of system self-organization. The vacuum polarization of atomic nuclei might allow their synchronous motion to activate a ZPE coherence.
Experimentally observed plasma ion-acoustic anomalies as well as inventions utilizing cycloid ion motions may offer supporting evidence. The suggested experiment of rapidly circulating a charged plasma in a vortex ring might induce a sufficient zero-point energy interaction to manifest a gravitational anomaly. An invention utilizing abrupt E field rotation to create virtual charge exhibits excessive energy output.
INTRODUCTION
Today's physics might allow the possibility of tapping virtually limitless quantities of energy directly from the fabric of space.
Such a surprising conjecture arises by merging two separate theoretical areas of modern physics:
1) The theories of the zero-point energy (1-5) (ZPE) that model the vacuum as containing real, energetic fluctuations of electric field energy, and 2) the theories of system self-organization (6-13) which not only open the possibility of inducing coherence in this energy, but also provide the underlying principles on how this could be achieved (10).
At first this hpyothesis might seem to be a blatant violation of the conservation of energy. But the key question is: Does the zero-point energy REALLY exist?
If so, a real energy is already present and its conservation would not be an issue.
The real issue centers on how random fluctuations could become coherent. Any spontaneous coherence seems to violate the second law of thermodynamics, which is generally understood to mean systems should evolve toward random behavior, not toward coherence.
This point is thoroughly discussed in the theories of system self- organization (11,12). Prigogine (13) won the 1977 Nobel prize in chemistry for defining the conditions under which a system could evolve from randomness toward coherence. The conditions are that the system must be far from equilibrium, nonlinear in its dynamics and have an energy flux through it.
These conditions are expressed in general system theory terms, and it turns out that the already published theories of the ZPE can, under certain circumstances, fulfill these conditions. Despite the intriguing possibility offered by system theory, no purely theoretical discussion could ever prove that the zero-point energy could be tapped as an energy source. Only an experiment coupled with the theory would be convincing. This article discusses how observed anomalies associated with the ion-acoustic oscillations in plasmas could be a manifestation of a coherent ZPE interaction and in particular, how the cycloid motion of a a plasma's nuclei might induce a sufficient ZPE coherence to manifest a gravitational anomaly.
This article also highlights an invention which utilizes the abrupt rotation of electric fields to cause an hypothesized pair production of virtual charges from the vacuum energy across a macroscopic system. The invention reportedly outputs excessive power while free running. The invention reportedly outputs excessive power while free running, and its full disclosure may constitute an experiment which could be repeated by the scientific community.
THE FABRIC OF SPACE
Does the fabric of empty space really contain a plenum of energy? This question has been debated throughout the history of science.
The early scientists through the 19th century believed in the existence of an ether, which was modeled as a material substance that could support the wave propagation of light.
The famous Michelson-Morley experiment failed to detect the expected ether wind produced by the earth's motion through it. At the turn of the cnetury Einstein used this result to support the theory of special relativity. When this became accepted, the scientific community rejected the existence of the ether. Thus classical physicists came to consider the vacuum of space to be truly empty.
The classical model was only to last until the 1930's when quantum mechanics became accepted. From quantum mechanics arose a mathematical term in the description of the ground state of any oscillating system called the zero-point energy.
The term "zero-point" refers to zero degrees Kelvin which means this energy exists even in the absence of all heat. The energy was interpreted as being INHERENT TO THE FABRIC OF SPACE ITSELF.
Dirac (14) showed how electron-positron pair production could arise from the vacuum fluctuations and quantum electrodynamics was born.
The Heisenberg uncertaintly principle allowed quantum mechanical systems to "borrow" this energy for short periods of time. The ether came back into science not modeled as a material substance but rather as a randomly fluctuating energy. Could a space filled with fluctuations of electric flux be consistent with special relativity? Boyer (15) showed that, by invoking the postulate of Lorentz invariance, the spectral energy density p of the zero-point fluctuations must have the particular form as a function of frequency w : p(w) = kw3 where the constant k is related to Planck's constant. This result gives a quantitative basis to the theory of random electrodynamics which strives to show that quantum mechanical effects arise FROM MATTER'S INTERACTION WITH THE ZERO-POINT ENERGY.
This cubic frequency relation implies an absurd result: the energy density of the ZPE AT EACH POINT IN SPACE is INFINITE!
A similar problem plagues quantum electrodynamics where infinities are renormalized away. Some type of frequency cutoff is required to create a finite, quantitative theory.
Wheeler (16) applied the theory of general relativity to the ZPE to create a natural cutoff in his theory of geometrodynamics. In general relativity the fabric of space curves as a function of energy density. When the density becomes sufficiently great, space pinches like it's forming a black hole. This gives rise to the formation of hyperspace structures that Wheeler called "wormholes." His calculation yielded microscopic channels on the order of 10-33 (to the -33rd) cm having a (mass equivalent) energy density of 10+94 (to the 94th) grams/cm3 (cubed).
The resulting view is that the fabric of space consists of constantly forming and annihilating pairs of microscopic "mini" blackholes and whiteholes which channel electric flux into and out of our three dimensional space. These mini holes manifest dynamics which could be modeled as a turbulent, virtual plasma that Wheeler calls the "quantum foam." In this view the elementary particles are like bubbles or vortices arising from the dynamics of the vacuum energy. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The remainder of this paper is at www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/tapzeropointenergy.htm
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19 years 6 months ago #13397
by Tommy
Replied by Tommy on topic Reply from Thomas Mandel
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(Tommy)
Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
(JMB)
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, I certainly am glad to hear that there is no mystery. I certainly am very glad to realize that the mathematics can be manipulated in such a way at to eliminate infinities and at the same time provide for the existence of matter which exists because it cannot not exist. Very brilliant! That's almost as brilliant as the evolutionists who say there is no mystery about life, life just happened and we exist because we survived to exist. Very brilliant guys!
I think it is safe to say that no one really knows what the ZPE is. Apparently, those who would study such things are interpreting the mathematics in such a way as to remove the mystery
Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
(JMB)
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, I certainly am glad to hear that there is no mystery. I certainly am very glad to realize that the mathematics can be manipulated in such a way at to eliminate infinities and at the same time provide for the existence of matter which exists because it cannot not exist. Very brilliant! That's almost as brilliant as the evolutionists who say there is no mystery about life, life just happened and we exist because we survived to exist. Very brilliant guys!
I think it is safe to say that no one really knows what the ZPE is. Apparently, those who would study such things are interpreting the mathematics in such a way as to remove the mystery
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19 years 6 months ago #12594
by JMB
Replied by JMB on topic Reply from Jacques Moret-Bailly
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tommy</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(Tommy)
Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
(JMB)
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, I certainly am glad to hear that there is no mystery. I certainly am very glad to realize that the mathematics can be manipulated in such a way at to eliminate infinities and at the same time provide for the existence of matter which exists because it cannot not exist. Very brilliant! That's almost as brilliant as the evolutionists who say there is no mystery about life, life just happened and we exist because we survived to exist. Very brilliant guys!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There is an infinite energy if it is suposed that Maxwell equations (ME) in the vacuum remain linear at very high frequencies. But we know that electron pairs may be produced in the vacuum at high frequencies, so that the theory of the zero point field which is founded on the linearity of electromagnetism fails.
What to do at high frequencies ? Study non linear Maxwell's equations. They lead to solitons which may be matter (A big work to do !).
All (most ?) laws of physics work in a limited domain. The zero point field is a consequence of the linearity of ME, and that there exist no insulated system in electromagnetism, it is not an hypothesis, a simple mathematical consequence of ME.
Pay attention: To compute the energy of a field, it is necessary to take into account the interference of all fields. In particular, the interference of the field emitted by the electron on a Bohr's trajectory as corrected by Lamb, with the zero point field, leads to a zero emitted energy: the orbit is stable (while a lot of people say that the electron should spiral to the kernel). It is simple, elementary electromagnetism.
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">(Tommy)
Some pictures are worth a thousand words. Here is one of those.
(JMB)
Physics is not poetry: it requires serious starting points and serious deductions.
There is absolutely no mystery about the zero point field,<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, I certainly am glad to hear that there is no mystery. I certainly am very glad to realize that the mathematics can be manipulated in such a way at to eliminate infinities and at the same time provide for the existence of matter which exists because it cannot not exist. Very brilliant! That's almost as brilliant as the evolutionists who say there is no mystery about life, life just happened and we exist because we survived to exist. Very brilliant guys!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There is an infinite energy if it is suposed that Maxwell equations (ME) in the vacuum remain linear at very high frequencies. But we know that electron pairs may be produced in the vacuum at high frequencies, so that the theory of the zero point field which is founded on the linearity of electromagnetism fails.
What to do at high frequencies ? Study non linear Maxwell's equations. They lead to solitons which may be matter (A big work to do !).
All (most ?) laws of physics work in a limited domain. The zero point field is a consequence of the linearity of ME, and that there exist no insulated system in electromagnetism, it is not an hypothesis, a simple mathematical consequence of ME.
Pay attention: To compute the energy of a field, it is necessary to take into account the interference of all fields. In particular, the interference of the field emitted by the electron on a Bohr's trajectory as corrected by Lamb, with the zero point field, leads to a zero emitted energy: the orbit is stable (while a lot of people say that the electron should spiral to the kernel). It is simple, elementary electromagnetism.
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19 years 6 months ago #12595
by JMB
Replied by JMB on topic Reply from Jacques Moret-Bailly
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tommy</i>
<br />
But the key question is: Does the zero-point energy REALLY exist?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It exists, but it is not available. The gravitational energy exists, it allows ride without effort a bicycle from the top af a hill to the valley, but, after, it is hard to climb...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The real issue centers on how random fluctuations could become coherent. Any spontaneous coherence seems to violate the second law of thermodynamics, which is generally understood to mean systems should evolve toward random behavior, not toward coherence.
This point is thoroughly discussed in the theories of system self- organization (11,12). Prigogine (13) won the 1977 Nobel prize in chemistry for defining the conditions under which a system could evolve from randomness toward coherence. The conditions are that the system must be far from equilibrium, nonlinear in its dynamics and have an energy flux through it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
OK, but there is a source of energy... Maxwell's demon unhappily does not exist.
It may be possible that the entropy decreases using neutrinos, or other very new physics, not strange things founded on the conformal group.
<br />
But the key question is: Does the zero-point energy REALLY exist?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It exists, but it is not available. The gravitational energy exists, it allows ride without effort a bicycle from the top af a hill to the valley, but, after, it is hard to climb...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The real issue centers on how random fluctuations could become coherent. Any spontaneous coherence seems to violate the second law of thermodynamics, which is generally understood to mean systems should evolve toward random behavior, not toward coherence.
This point is thoroughly discussed in the theories of system self- organization (11,12). Prigogine (13) won the 1977 Nobel prize in chemistry for defining the conditions under which a system could evolve from randomness toward coherence. The conditions are that the system must be far from equilibrium, nonlinear in its dynamics and have an energy flux through it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
OK, but there is a source of energy... Maxwell's demon unhappily does not exist.
It may be possible that the entropy decreases using neutrinos, or other very new physics, not strange things founded on the conformal group.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
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