Quantized redshift anomaly

north
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19 years 9 months ago #12394 by north

Replied by north on topic Reply from

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tvanflandern
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by johnduff
 Could you present a list of the 20 or so mechanisms which can cause a red shift. I can only come up with a few.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">From Apeiron Vol. 1, #9-10, pp. 35-44 (1991):
Table 1
Non-Velocity Redshift Mechanisms<ul>Year Originator Mechanism<li>1917 Einstein Electromagnetic repulsion</li><li>1929 Zwicky Gravitational drag</li><li>1937 Hubble Gravitational interaction</li><li>1949 Tolman Extended expansion hypothesis</li><li>1949 Weyl Quantum gravity</li><li>1954 Finlay-Freundlic Photon-Photon interaction</li><li>1964 Fürth Curved photon path</li><li>1972 Pecker et al. Photon-Photon interaction</li><li>1974 Hoyle-Narlikar Variable mass interaction</li><li>1975 Konitz Non-Euclidean geometry</li><li>1976 Pecker et al. Photon-scalar U-particle interaction</li><li>1976 Segal Global and local time hypothesis</li><li>1976 Jaakkola G-E coupling</li><li>1979 Crawford Tidal force in curved space</li><li>1981 Tifft Variable mass</li><li>1981 Broberg Elementary quantum interaction</li><li>1984 Ghosh Velocity-dependent inertial induction</li><li>1986 Wolf Thermal correlations at source</li><li>1986 Mathé Global and local time hypothesis</li><li>1986 Pecker-Vigier Gravitational drag in Dirac ether</li></ul>Several more have come along since then, such as the graviton drag in elysium of MM. See the original reference for further details on mechanisms in the above table. -|Tom|-
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Tom

just wondering why Cosmic Plasmas were not mentioned here? do you think they have no conseqence on red shift anomalies? if so why not?

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johnduff
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19 years 9 months ago #12548 by johnduff

Replied by johnduff on topic Reply from john williamson

Larry B.

Re the hubble constant units.

The units are in terms of velocity/distance , with velocity measured in kilometers/second, and distance measured in mega parsecs, which is a rather odd collection of units to put into a single equation.

H can be interpreted as a velocity which increases with distance. If we observe a red shift velocity of 70 km/sec, we can infer that the object is one MPc away. If the observed velocity is 140 km/sec, we would expect the distance to be 2 MPc.

To express H in SI units, we have to convert km/sec to meters/sec, giving a value for velocity of 70,000 m/sec.
MPc = Pc x 10^6 times 3.086 x 10^16 m/Pc = 3.086 x 10^22 m

Substituting into the velocity /distance expression, we obtain a Hubble constant of 2.26 x 10^(-18) m/sec/m. This is a bit of a mouthful to bandy about in a spirited discusion, hence the decision to adopt the odd units which are customary.

Note that we can elliminate the "meters" from the expression, leaving a remaining unit of " per second".

As a side note, the reciprical of the Hubble constant is a time length, and works out to be about 14 x 10^9 years. This is sometimes refered to as "The Hubble age of the universe."

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tvanflandern
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19 years 9 months ago #12170 by tvanflandern

Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by north
 just wondering why Cosmic Plasmas were not mentioned here? do you think they have no conseqence on red shift anomalies? if so why not?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If light comes from a star (a huge ball of plasma), it is not normally redshifted. So I would not expect thin plasmas dispersed through space to affect redshifts either. -|Tom|-

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north
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19 years 9 months ago #12285 by north

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<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by tvanflandern
 <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by north
 just wondering why Cosmic Plasmas were not mentioned here? do you think they have no conseqence on red shift anomalies? if so why not?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">If light comes from a star (a huge ball of plasma), it is not normally redshifted.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

explain, in detail your logic here.

So I would not expect thin plasmas dispersed through space to affect redshifts either. -|Tom|-
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and yet Cosmic Plasmas are electromagnetic by nature, and so is light.there on the same plane here!!

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tvanflandern
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19 years 9 months ago #12397 by tvanflandern

Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by north
 explain, in detail your logic here.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">I gave an example of a strong plasma that has no effect on redshift. If a strong plasma has no effect, why would a much weaker one?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">and yet Cosmic Plasmas are electromagnetic by nature, and so is light.there on the same plane here!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">That is a pun on the word "electromagnetic". Light has neither electricity nor magnetism. Plasmas may emit light, but at normal wavelengths. There is no imaginable physics that would allow plasmas to cause emitted light to shift to longer-than-normal wavelengths.

Or is your imagination better than mine? -|Tom|-