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Mal Education - System Design - Should Be VS Is
11 years 3 months ago #21482
by KeLP
Replied by KeLP on topic Reply from Ken Partridge
As described so far, it's 'free market progressivism'. But I refuse to go off track and enter into political definitions at this point. This is Hyper School Design.
Gee, I was asking you how BEST is determined. It's your design. I'd just bloviate with a too-long tirade of options. My purpose is to see YOUR design more clearly.
I take it you envision multiple Hyper Schools. I have mine, you have yours, Shando has his. But if each of us has his HypS, then each of us has a different BEST. Yet I took your original step as a single Hyper School from which clones could be made and modified.
So, keeping to your 'open source' paradigm, is Hyper School Linux or a Linux program?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
Gee, I was asking you how BEST is determined. It's your design. I'd just bloviate with a too-long tirade of options. My purpose is to see YOUR design more clearly.
I take it you envision multiple Hyper Schools. I have mine, you have yours, Shando has his. But if each of us has his HypS, then each of us has a different BEST. Yet I took your original step as a single Hyper School from which clones could be made and modified.
So, keeping to your 'open source' paradigm, is Hyper School Linux or a Linux program?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
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11 years 3 months ago #21635
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[KeLP] "I was asking you how BEST is determined."</b>
Well, it's complicated. But just make me God (or even better, have everyone <u>always</u> do <u>everything</u> I say), and I'll fix all problems. (The guy running the show right now is incompetent. Duh.)
FYI, I'm not being entirely facetious.
***
But back here in the physical world it really is complicated. "Best" is not an objective concept. This is why the politician's approach to problem solving (one size fits all) does not work. They can't afford to do it the right way - that would use up all the money they can steal without us noticing, and leave nothing for them to skim for the next election.
Think about medical treatments as an example. All of them. Prescription drugs, surgery, over the counter drugs, radiation treatments, herbal medicines (yes, even the literal witch doctor stuff from Central America), band aids, contact lenses, leaches, x-rays, thermometers, voodoo dolls and so on. Everything you've ever heard of. Literally everything.
And realize the following as you wonder which is 'best' (or 'worst')<ul><li><font color="pink">ALL</font id="pink"> of them work (for some of us)</li><li><font color="pink">NONE</font id="pink"> of them work (for all of us)</li></ul>
My point is that we are all different. There are no one size solutions for ANY PROBLEM. Politicians claim otherwise. Politicians are the physical embodiment of Evil.
(Dang. Why is there so much static on my phone lately?)
"BEST" depends on who you are and when you ask the question. Among other things.
***
Now, the answers usually change slowly enough over time that once you find it for a particular person with a particular problem it usually can be repeated with good results. For that person.
And, a lot of us are similar enough to a lot of others that an answer that works for one of us can be used on another without <u>too much change</u>.
But, enough of us are different enough that, to be fair and just, we have to allow for the need to try something totally different.
And, sometimes we change enough that what worked last year does not work now. And we are again confronted with the need to look for a new solution.
<u><b>Or stop pretending that we care about fairness and justice.</u></b>
Comments? Objections?
LB
Well, it's complicated. But just make me God (or even better, have everyone <u>always</u> do <u>everything</u> I say), and I'll fix all problems. (The guy running the show right now is incompetent. Duh.)
FYI, I'm not being entirely facetious.
***
But back here in the physical world it really is complicated. "Best" is not an objective concept. This is why the politician's approach to problem solving (one size fits all) does not work. They can't afford to do it the right way - that would use up all the money they can steal without us noticing, and leave nothing for them to skim for the next election.
Think about medical treatments as an example. All of them. Prescription drugs, surgery, over the counter drugs, radiation treatments, herbal medicines (yes, even the literal witch doctor stuff from Central America), band aids, contact lenses, leaches, x-rays, thermometers, voodoo dolls and so on. Everything you've ever heard of. Literally everything.
And realize the following as you wonder which is 'best' (or 'worst')<ul><li><font color="pink">ALL</font id="pink"> of them work (for some of us)</li><li><font color="pink">NONE</font id="pink"> of them work (for all of us)</li></ul>
My point is that we are all different. There are no one size solutions for ANY PROBLEM. Politicians claim otherwise. Politicians are the physical embodiment of Evil.
(Dang. Why is there so much static on my phone lately?)
"BEST" depends on who you are and when you ask the question. Among other things.
***
Now, the answers usually change slowly enough over time that once you find it for a particular person with a particular problem it usually can be repeated with good results. For that person.
And, a lot of us are similar enough to a lot of others that an answer that works for one of us can be used on another without <u>too much change</u>.
But, enough of us are different enough that, to be fair and just, we have to allow for the need to try something totally different.
And, sometimes we change enough that what worked last year does not work now. And we are again confronted with the need to look for a new solution.
<u><b>Or stop pretending that we care about fairness and justice.</u></b>
Comments? Objections?
LB
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11 years 3 months ago #24339
by KeLP
Replied by KeLP on topic Reply from Ken Partridge
LB wrote: "BEST" depends on who you are and when you ask the question. Among other things.
I am me and I asked a message or two ago. And I still didn't get an answer. Must be those other things.
All of what you've said is true. But your Design was somewhat specific:
3) Repeat step 2 (lecture videos) for each subject usually taught in the BEST. . .schools and/or by the BEST teachers, and use them to populate the data bases of the Hyper. . .School site.
So we need to identify the BEST schools and/or teachers in the current crop. There are many ways to do so. Here are some:
1. The number of students that go on to Ivy League schools (which give us much of our current crop of politicians. That's a good criteria).
2. SAT or other test scores of the students.
3. Percentage of students that go on to be "successful" (another weaselly concept).
4. State or Federal ranking of the school.
5. Teacher acknowledged as "superior" by Teacher's Union, Government, or popular magazine.
6. Industry by industry breakdown of where the better employees matriculate.
7. Poll the parents.
8. Poll the students.
9. Poll the teachers.
10. Poll the country.
Choose one of these, or another method, then make your videos. Some of these choices will make gaining Governmental approval easier than others, and that is important for meshing with the Mainstream, Step 6:
6) Devise a protocol for meshing this system with the existing monopoly school system.
To advance this discussion, I'm choosing choice 1. Arne Duncan (standing in here for whatever will be the certifying authority) praises me and certification is on a fast track. Good. (?)
Now, is this THE Hyper School? Since it has videos based on or by (still ain't clear which) the BEST teachers and schools, it can only be improved upon when future teachers and schools come along, when the videos are replaced by these BETTER BEST.
So clones of THE Hyper School will be allowed to eliminate subjects they don't teach, add subjects not in THE HypS, and supplement THE HypS videos. But the core subjects are taught by the BEST, so can't be improved.
Or is it A Hyper School? KHypS is Duncan approved, but LBHypS, using another criteria for BEST, cons ol' Arne into certifying it and also opens. Now we have multiple Hyper Schools, with multiple criteria.
Clones of these would obviously be able to REPLACE core subject videos with others. So if SHypS clones my superior KHypS, but wants to use LBHypS's Math videos in place of mine, he can do so.
But if unauthorized Hyper Schools open, with non-approved BEST criteria, what are the ramifications of using their videos? Surely Arne won't like that, and might pull certification?
Any of this as you envision it?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
I am me and I asked a message or two ago. And I still didn't get an answer. Must be those other things.
All of what you've said is true. But your Design was somewhat specific:
3) Repeat step 2 (lecture videos) for each subject usually taught in the BEST. . .schools and/or by the BEST teachers, and use them to populate the data bases of the Hyper. . .School site.
So we need to identify the BEST schools and/or teachers in the current crop. There are many ways to do so. Here are some:
1. The number of students that go on to Ivy League schools (which give us much of our current crop of politicians. That's a good criteria).
2. SAT or other test scores of the students.
3. Percentage of students that go on to be "successful" (another weaselly concept).
4. State or Federal ranking of the school.
5. Teacher acknowledged as "superior" by Teacher's Union, Government, or popular magazine.
6. Industry by industry breakdown of where the better employees matriculate.
7. Poll the parents.
8. Poll the students.
9. Poll the teachers.
10. Poll the country.
Choose one of these, or another method, then make your videos. Some of these choices will make gaining Governmental approval easier than others, and that is important for meshing with the Mainstream, Step 6:
6) Devise a protocol for meshing this system with the existing monopoly school system.
To advance this discussion, I'm choosing choice 1. Arne Duncan (standing in here for whatever will be the certifying authority) praises me and certification is on a fast track. Good. (?)
Now, is this THE Hyper School? Since it has videos based on or by (still ain't clear which) the BEST teachers and schools, it can only be improved upon when future teachers and schools come along, when the videos are replaced by these BETTER BEST.
So clones of THE Hyper School will be allowed to eliminate subjects they don't teach, add subjects not in THE HypS, and supplement THE HypS videos. But the core subjects are taught by the BEST, so can't be improved.
Or is it A Hyper School? KHypS is Duncan approved, but LBHypS, using another criteria for BEST, cons ol' Arne into certifying it and also opens. Now we have multiple Hyper Schools, with multiple criteria.
Clones of these would obviously be able to REPLACE core subject videos with others. So if SHypS clones my superior KHypS, but wants to use LBHypS's Math videos in place of mine, he can do so.
But if unauthorized Hyper Schools open, with non-approved BEST criteria, what are the ramifications of using their videos? Surely Arne won't like that, and might pull certification?
Any of this as you envision it?
Ken
The more you learn, the less you know--I don't want to know anything.
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11 years 3 months ago #14052
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[KeLP] "So we need to identify the BEST schools and/or teachers in the current crop. There are many ways to do so. Here are some:
1. The number of students that go on to Ivy League schools (which give us much of our current crop of politicians. That's a good criteria)."</b>
Like I said, "best" is not the same for everyone. This particular item would be number one on my list of things that identify the "worst" schools.
(I suspect you know that, of course.)
1. The number of students that go on to Ivy League schools (which give us much of our current crop of politicians. That's a good criteria)."</b>
Like I said, "best" is not the same for everyone. This particular item would be number one on my list of things that identify the "worst" schools.
(I suspect you know that, of course.)
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11 years 3 months ago #21428
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[KeLP] "Any of this as you envision it?"</b>
Actually yes. All of it. The only improvement I would like to see is for the politicians (at the federal level for sure but maybe not at the local level) to be forbidden to touch the educational process in any way. Violations ought to be a felony with long prison terms.
Not realistic - I know. I'm just day dreaming about my hypothetical fair and just society ...
LB
Actually yes. All of it. The only improvement I would like to see is for the politicians (at the federal level for sure but maybe not at the local level) to be forbidden to touch the educational process in any way. Violations ought to be a felony with long prison terms.
Not realistic - I know. I'm just day dreaming about my hypothetical fair and just society ...
LB
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11 years 3 months ago #14053
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
<b>[KeLP] "But if unauthorized Hyper Schools open, with non-approved BEST criteria, what are the ramifications of using their videos? Surely Arne won't like that, and might pull certification?"</b>
If someone wanted to create a clone of my Hyper School using methods and or materials that I did not approve of, I'm not sure I'd try to stop them. If I did want to stop them, probably all I could really do is prevent them from calling themselves a Hyper School.
And that's fine with me.
I don't want my Hyper Schools to become the new monopoly. Unless they turn out to be so good that no one else is ever successful in attracting customers.
In that case there would only be Hyper Schools selling educations. And even though that matches the classical definition of a monopoly I'm not sure monopoly is the right word to use.
Monopolies (the real deal; the in-restraint-of-trade type of organization we all know and hate) can only exist at the point of a gun. Like the electrical utilities used to be, and the water utilities still are. Like the airlines used to be, and the airports still are.
LB
If someone wanted to create a clone of my Hyper School using methods and or materials that I did not approve of, I'm not sure I'd try to stop them. If I did want to stop them, probably all I could really do is prevent them from calling themselves a Hyper School.
And that's fine with me.
I don't want my Hyper Schools to become the new monopoly. Unless they turn out to be so good that no one else is ever successful in attracting customers.
In that case there would only be Hyper Schools selling educations. And even though that matches the classical definition of a monopoly I'm not sure monopoly is the right word to use.
Monopolies (the real deal; the in-restraint-of-trade type of organization we all know and hate) can only exist at the point of a gun. Like the electrical utilities used to be, and the water utilities still are. Like the airlines used to be, and the airports still are.
LB
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