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Smoking Gun In Physics
21 years 6 months ago #3480
by Abhi
Reply from Abhijit Patil was created by Abhi
Message to Dr Tom,
Your site always give me message "this page can't be refreshed without resending information....." even though I do not try to refresh page.
And while posting above post, when I saw it in "preview", it was not showing plus sign at all. But it showing now. Hope your webmaster will rectify problem.
-Abhi.
Every obstacle is just another opportunity to move forward.
Your site always give me message "this page can't be refreshed without resending information....." even though I do not try to refresh page.
And while posting above post, when I saw it in "preview", it was not showing plus sign at all. But it showing now. Hope your webmaster will rectify problem.
-Abhi.
Every obstacle is just another opportunity to move forward.
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21 years 6 months ago #6019
by north
Replied by north on topic Reply from
abhi
i have very little math knowledge,so i have no idea what your point is!
i have very little math knowledge,so i have no idea what your point is!
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21 years 6 months ago #5769
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Abhi]: while posting above post, when I saw it in "preview", it was not showing plus sign at all.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Certain characters, including +, do not show up in preview mode, but do show in posts. This is a limitation of preview mode. Our webmasters are not the authors of the Message Board software, and have no ability to change this. -|Tom|-
Certain characters, including +, do not show up in preview mode, but do show in posts. This is a limitation of preview mode. Our webmasters are not the authors of the Message Board software, and have no ability to change this. -|Tom|-
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21 years 6 months ago #5770
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Abhi]: Consider a spiral horizontal coil , center of gravity of which is supported by table at point G. ... My question is, will the table break down during blackout time T?<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
I am completely unable to understand your example, even after several readings. Why would a horizontal coil be relevant to a gravity problem? Why is the center of gravity of the coil relevant? What is attached to the two ends of the coil? Where is the coil relative to the table? Same question for other objects in example.
Ultimately, this seems to be a question about the speed of gravity. We take it for granted here at Meta Research that the speed of gravity is >> c. But even in conventional physics, the speed of sound is << c, so everyone would agree that a new weight added to a table would send a sound wave through the table, crushing it. So what question remains? -|Tom|-
I am completely unable to understand your example, even after several readings. Why would a horizontal coil be relevant to a gravity problem? Why is the center of gravity of the coil relevant? What is attached to the two ends of the coil? Where is the coil relative to the table? Same question for other objects in example.
Ultimately, this seems to be a question about the speed of gravity. We take it for granted here at Meta Research that the speed of gravity is >> c. But even in conventional physics, the speed of sound is << c, so everyone would agree that a new weight added to a table would send a sound wave through the table, crushing it. So what question remains? -|Tom|-
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21 years 6 months ago #6153
by Abhi
Replied by Abhi on topic Reply from Abhijit Patil
Dear Dr. Tom,
I just typed long reply to you. To save it in case of power cut, I right clicked mouse, select all and instead of "copy", I clicked "delete"...Where it is gone? oooops..
Any way, next time. I have sent a doc file to you, in addition to that, for the moment perhaps what I am giving below might make clear what I am saying. Please read the doc file first...
Analysis:
First Case:
Suppose initially, the point M is supporting only weight of system mg. When we first attach the body, the compression waves beginning from point A will take time to reach to point M of table. So during this propagation delay, the point M is balancing only weight mg and not (m+m')g N.
But in such situation, even if we use that weight m'g which is propagating across system and weight mg at point m of table to do work, it does not violate law of conservation in any way. There is no extra weight or force generated in this first case.
Second Case:
In our special case, we get extra force m'g generated due to propagation delay. And we get enough time to use it. Point M has no way to know that extra force is generated and it should not break.
So first case does not violate law of conservation of energy, but second case does violate law of conservation of energy.
The above situation can be explained by following anology:
Suppose you have just one billion dollar in your bank a/c and other one billion dollar deposited by you in bank is in processing and not credited to your a/c by bank. If you ask bank to stop processing and get it back to spend, you are not getting "free" money. If bank credit these one billion dollars to your a/c and you withdraw it and spend it, still, it is not "free" one billion dollars. It is hard earned money by you.
But if you have already two billion dollars in your a/c and you transfer one billion dollar from a/c A to a/c B. Now bank give credit of one billion dollar to a/c B first and debit one billion dollar to a/c A much later due to propagation delay of processing. So you have two billion dollars credit in a/c A and one billion dollar credit in a/c B. So you got three billion dollars credit to your a/cs. Now you can withdraw three billion dollars and spend that "extra free" one billion dollar.
Even if bank realise this mistake later, the damage is already done. You got it....
-Abhi.
I just typed long reply to you. To save it in case of power cut, I right clicked mouse, select all and instead of "copy", I clicked "delete"...Where it is gone? oooops..
Any way, next time. I have sent a doc file to you, in addition to that, for the moment perhaps what I am giving below might make clear what I am saying. Please read the doc file first...
Analysis:
First Case:
Suppose initially, the point M is supporting only weight of system mg. When we first attach the body, the compression waves beginning from point A will take time to reach to point M of table. So during this propagation delay, the point M is balancing only weight mg and not (m+m')g N.
But in such situation, even if we use that weight m'g which is propagating across system and weight mg at point m of table to do work, it does not violate law of conservation in any way. There is no extra weight or force generated in this first case.
Second Case:
In our special case, we get extra force m'g generated due to propagation delay. And we get enough time to use it. Point M has no way to know that extra force is generated and it should not break.
So first case does not violate law of conservation of energy, but second case does violate law of conservation of energy.
The above situation can be explained by following anology:
Suppose you have just one billion dollar in your bank a/c and other one billion dollar deposited by you in bank is in processing and not credited to your a/c by bank. If you ask bank to stop processing and get it back to spend, you are not getting "free" money. If bank credit these one billion dollars to your a/c and you withdraw it and spend it, still, it is not "free" one billion dollars. It is hard earned money by you.
But if you have already two billion dollars in your a/c and you transfer one billion dollar from a/c A to a/c B. Now bank give credit of one billion dollar to a/c B first and debit one billion dollar to a/c A much later due to propagation delay of processing. So you have two billion dollars credit in a/c A and one billion dollar credit in a/c B. So you got three billion dollars credit to your a/cs. Now you can withdraw three billion dollars and spend that "extra free" one billion dollar.
Even if bank realise this mistake later, the damage is already done. You got it....
-Abhi.
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