Gravitational Engineering - The Graviton Sail

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />In my opening post I speculated that incresing the elyson density around the particles of a human scale object might increase its opacity. From what you know so far about elysium, does this sound reasonable? (Assuming that we can figure out some way to do it of course?)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Making elysium dense requires making matter dense first. So whether we are targeting being opaque to elysons or gravitons, we need to create ultra-dense states of matter.

For starters, consider ways to make matter as dense as an atomic nucleus. That might or might not be dense enough to get significant gravitational shielding effects. But it is certainly enough to get that Nobel Prize. [] -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
Making elysium dense requires making matter dense first. So whether we are targeting being opaque to elysons or gravitons, we need to create ultra-dense states of matter.

For starters, consider ways to make matter as dense as an atomic nucleus. That might or might not be dense enough to get significant gravitational shielding effects.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
That is the most obvious way to make elysium more dense. But I'm hoping it isn't the only way.

How compressible is elysium?

In the recent past you have charactrerized it as both atmosphere-like and as ocean-like on various occasions. I realize that we don't know much about it. Perhaps not enough to decide yet if the elysium is contiguous or discrete. But either way it ought to be compressible to some extent, shouldn't it? Have any constraints been found?

LB

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Larry Burford</i>
<br />How compressible is elysium?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">I expect it to be compressible rather than incompressible the way water is. However, how do you propose to operate on elysium without using matter? And if you use matter to compress elysium, it must be matter of extreme density because ordinary matter is very transparent to elysium.

So we're back to creating high-density states of matter. [] -|Tom|-

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
[tvf] ... we are talking about simple graviton wind propulsion, much like the sail and windmill examples I mentioned in PG.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes, exactly. In fact I think now that I should have called this a graviton sail instead of a reactionless thruster. True, it requires no reaction mass to be carried along and dumped overboard, but it does use the principle of reaction to operate.

So pretend that the title of this thread is "Gravitational Engineering - The Graviton Sail". In fact, if you or the moderator god has the power to edit the title, I'd like to officially request that this change be made.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
[tvf] I expect it to be compressible rather than incompressible the way water is. However, how do you propose to operate on elysium without using matter?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Well, I do plan to use matter. But I'm going to go around to the back and try to sneak in through a window ...

===

We may not know much about elysium. But we do know a little.

* If you move an electron from here to there, it appears that you also move some nearby elysons.
* These elysons in turn move their neighbors, and so on in what we know as an electromagnetic pulse.
* If you move an electron back and forth in a continuous fashion, you also move the nearby elysons back and forth.
* And they move their neighbor elysons back and forth in what we know as an electromagnetic wave.

Electrons moving at constant speed appear to have other effects on the elysium.

* When the current first begins to flow (ie while the electrons are still accelerating), an EM pulse is generated.
* As the electrons reach full speed the EM radiation dies off, but a magnetic field is left in place.
* If the current returns to zero, an oppositely sensed pulse is generated as the magnetic field dies off.

This might mean that while the current flows it maintains whatever displacement of elysons was created by the brief acceleration of the electrons. And that this displacement of elysons *is* what we call a magnetic field.

===

But even if that last part is wrong, we do appear to be able to move elysons by moving electrons. And we can do *that* very very well.

===

* Elysons don't move instantaneously when a force is applied. (Nothing does.)
* In the big world if you try to move something back and forth, it lags behind a little.
* The faster you try to move it, the larger the lag.

I'm thinking that it might be possible to arrange some conductors so that, in the region between them it is possible to get some elysons moving toward the mid point from opposite directions, at the same time. The lag mentioned above would have to be accounted for, perhaps by the physical arrangement of the conductors.

When the elysons arrive at the mid point, they will be closer together than normal. They will be compressed.

===

The following thought experiment is way too simple to have much chance of really working. It is offered as a way to try to help others see what I'm seeing in my mind. (No fair peaking at that stuff over in the corner. HEY, that means you.)

Two conical electrodes are stacked inside each other so that they are everywhere 1 centimeter apart.

An alternating voltage is applied to them such that the elysons in the 1 cm gap are alternately moving toward and away from the mid point between the conductors.

(This "mid point" is actually a "mid surface". It is an imaginary cone 0.5 cm from each of the real conical conductors.)

For half of each cycle of the current elysium density at the mid surface is below normal.

For the other half it is above normal.

If the voltage is turned up high enough, the density peak is enough to reflect a significant percentage of gravitons. So for a small fraction of each cycle this conical gizmo becomes a graviton sail and produces thrust in the direction of its point.

===

Wouldn't it be neat if we could get this compression at the mid surface using direct current? Then it would produce thrust continuously instead of intermittently. Oh well.

===

Comment and criticism is once again solicited. If I need to clarify anything, please ask.


Regards,
LB

I have followed this thread for a few days and have a few questions voiced as postulates/hypotheses.

1. Do high density states of matter need to be created or would compression of the nuclei of known and readily available atoms (U-238 for instance) applied in staggered layers be enough to make the shield gravity translucent (not as significant of a net force as opaque) Would that net force be enough to make a working model.

(I tried to think of something that our present technology might actually be able to synthesize.)

2. Can elysium be attracted to a surface via manipulation of the electron shell or atomic configuration of the atom (is there any evidence that any particular atoms have higher concentrations or any interatomic relationship/reaction/interaction with the elysium? Would this be expected in atoms of high mass/density outside the gravitational sphere of influence of stars or planets? Can we manipulate this property if it exists?

I realize these questions may not have an answer and are deep in the realm of speculation, I was hoping to find an in to this discussion and stimulate some debate.

I await your comments.

Mark

Hello Mark,

As you suspect, no one knows the answers to these and other interesting questions. In fact, I'd be surprised if there is anyone else on the planet that is even aware of the questions.

We are not even positive that elysium exists. But waves need a medium to wave in. I think elysium is probably real.

Since we don't know anything, really, I'm not sure how to move beyond here.

===

A list of anomolous observations related to electron behavior might be useful. I suspect there are a lot of these. And I suspect that some may be realted to electron/elysium interactions.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt;&gt; We might already have more evidence for the existence of elysium than we realize.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

Some other brains looking at my basic idea would probably be a good idea, too. Do you see any flaw in my conclusion that a graviton opaque cone would be pushed around by gravitons? Assuming that gravitons do in fact exist.

Regards,
LB