The entropy of systems

Stoat,

Unless I am reading this wrong, it seems that a FORCE which causes motion in a system means: the time it takes with distance (acceleration) for a body to go from an initial ENERGY state to a final energy state.

FORCE and ENERGY are linked together.

Do you agree with this Stoat?

Hi GD, considering that we have thousands of years of mythology regarding lightning, it may come as something of a surprise that we don't know a great deal about how storm clouds produce it. It's only about ten years since sprites were discovered, and it's less than that for the discovery that ice is a protonic semiconductor. It was also thought until fairly recently that the electrostatic charges were built up in sheets but that seems to be not the case. The energy released from storm lightning globally is considerable but there is no mechanism to accelerate electrons to light speed.

Think of sub light matter as a vast stalinist bureaucracy, it has information on just about everything in an instant. However, it takes ages to act on that information, unless its power base is somehow threatened. A lot of work was done to establish this monstrosity but once that was done nobody in it wants to do any work unless they absolutely have to. Bone idle, feet up on the desk, they see, almost instantly, some micro event. They spring into action and change things, almost instantly. They try to change things over as small a domain as possible, passing the buck as usual. Someone else in the bureaucracy has to do that action again, no doubt cursing his work colleague. Once an assembly of domains has been created the staff go back to doing as little as possible.

With lightning storms on Earth these guys barely put their sandwiches down. Sun storms would be a different matter though; as would be the storms between io and jupiter for instance. Sunspots are storms but not like the storms on earth. They produce something called an mhd (magnetohydrodynamic) wave. We also have to think of these waves operating over vast distances through galaxies.

This talk of work brings us on to your second question. An electron spinning at the speed of light is not doing any work. Work has been done to get it angular velocity upto light speed but the electron is not doing any work after that. If it has to accept a photon, then this causes a change in its velocity. Then it is doing work but it will dump the photon as quickly as it can, clearing its desk, so that it can put its feet up and listen to the cricket.

That's my kind of universe. [][8D]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Stoat</i>
<br />This talk of work brings us on to your second question. An electron spinning at the speed of light is not doing any work. Work has been done to get it angular velocity upto light speed but the electron is not doing any work after that. If it has to accept a photon, then this causes a change in its velocity. Then it is doing work but it will dump the photon as quickly as it can, clearing its desk, so that it can put its feet up and listen to the cricket.

That's my kind of universe. [][8D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">



Hello Stoat,

I think this is exactly what is happening with lightning: these photons are created by a sudden change in the energy state of all the atoms in the path going from a high energy state (cloud or atmosphere) to a low energy state (ground).

In the atmosphere, the electron is probably spinning already at a faster pace to start with: it's position (less gravity), it's energy state is higher (less bonds), add to this temperature variations (cooler with altitude and warmer ground during hot summer days), and motion (violent storm winds), I think would be sufficient to increase the speed of the electrons.

The varying energy state in a system causes motion.

Can we say the same for electrons (with respect to the nucleus of the atom) and the planets (with respect to the sun)?

Would this be correct?: W=fxd is the same as W=E(initial)tends to E(final)with distance?

I've been staring at this graph for ages, trying to get to grips with the idea of "action." Help me out here somebody, if I say yes, does this mean I'm accepting that the universe is doing the initial differentiation? What if the universe can do calculus better than we can? Things like the "devil's staircase" for instance? I'm sure I just aint got my thinking head on yet with this one. Any maths prodigies out there?

Stoat,

I think you are on the right track, varying energy with time or distance should be explained with differential equations.
(since I am useless with equations, I will try to describe it in words)

How about this:

Lets try to compare energy state with distance:

Hf (initial) tends to Hf (final) for electrons:
The energy state of the electrons (acceleration, frequency, distance from nucleus) depends on the energy state of the nucleus.
The energy state of the nucleus varies with position in a system or mass.

Here is what I think affects the speed of electrons:

The changing distance with time from:

1) center of nucleus to electron
2) center of atom to molecules
3) center of mass of molecules to a more massive body (Earth)
4) center of Earth to center of Sun
5) center of solar system to center of galaxy
6) center of galaxy and center of cluster of galaxies
7) center of cluster to center of mega cluster

I think the changing distribution of mass and it's energy state is affecting the speed of the electrons in the universe. Maybe This change is happening simultaniously all over the universe?

Stoat, before I go further, I need to know if we can replace F(force) with E(Hf initial) tends to E(Hf final)?

Stoat,

I see Einstein was working on an equivalence between acceleration and gravity:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein-Hilbert_action

Was he implying that the changing available energy warping space-time causes a force?