- Thank you received: 0
Requiem for Relativity
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
16 years 5 months ago #20002
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nemesis</i>
<br />Joe, if I'm following you correctly you're saying a planet of ~3.7 Earth masses at 197.7 AU would fit the Uranus perturbation data. A planet of that mass at that distance would be cold and very dim and would require no masking nebula. It could be the "green dot". Wouldn't it be more parsimonious to make that assumption?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This lower mass (my 3.7 became 2.4 Earth masses upon improved measurement of the graph, and revision of my simple dynamical theory above) applies to a planet at ~ 52AU, not 197.7AU. My idea now is, that the phase incoherence, in the signal remaining after white noise subtraction (in Standish's graphs, Figs. 5a & 6a, of Uranus' RA) is inconsistent with Newtonian perturbation by a planet (see previous post; this idea was appended to it, after "nemesis" posted his question).
The 2.4 Earth masses might become zero if Standish's space probe data were perfected. The ephemeris based on Earth-based planetary mass measurements (the basis of Fig. 5a) gives 7.45 Earth masses: almost exactly half the mass of Uranus itself. It's as if Uranus were interacting with itself, through the intermediation of some structure or barrier that orbits at ~ 52AU.
Though my periodograms don't confirm the evidence for Barbarossa that I saw grossly in Standish's Fig. 5a, Standish's analysis doesn't disprove Barbarossa's existence. If Standish's ephemeris is right, his predecessors' ephemerides were wrong; if Standish's predecessors were fallible, then Standish is, too. Also, the ~ 52AU, ~7.45 (~14.6/2!) Earthmass *incoherent* signal in Standish's Fig. 5a, which remains after detrending and de-noising, but is mostly or completely removed by use of space probe planetary mass measurements as in Fig. 6a, indicates new physics.
With new physics, the only way to prove anything is to look, not theorize. My $100 reward offer, previously detailed on this messageboard, still stands. The reward is merely for getting someone really sufficiently equipped, to look definitively; not for looking oneself. Previously on this thread I've listed many reasons for looking. If a dense body isn't there, then likely something just as interesting is.
Regarding *Neptune's* ephemeris, Standish's Fig. 8a remarks that the ephemeris of USNO Publications, Vol. XII, agrees with Standish's, for Neptune's RA, only between 1830 & 1950. Before 1830 & again after 1950, for whatever reasons, the USNO Vol. XII ephemeris gives +20"/century greater RA for Neptune than Standish's does. Pursuant to my recent posts, Barbarossa should cause *Uranus'* time derivative of RA to deviate +/- 0.73"/(84/2/4)*pi/2*100 = +/- 10.92"/century. Tidal acceleration goes as r, time before reversal goes as r^1.5, and subtended angle goes as 1/r. So, Barbarossa should cause *Neptune's* time derivative of RA to deviate +/- 10.92 * (30.07/19.18)^1.5 = +/- 21.44"/century. This is the same deviation of Neptune's time derivative of RA, that by whatever complicated calculation, is seen in USNO Vol. XII vs. Standish.
<br />Joe, if I'm following you correctly you're saying a planet of ~3.7 Earth masses at 197.7 AU would fit the Uranus perturbation data. A planet of that mass at that distance would be cold and very dim and would require no masking nebula. It could be the "green dot". Wouldn't it be more parsimonious to make that assumption?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This lower mass (my 3.7 became 2.4 Earth masses upon improved measurement of the graph, and revision of my simple dynamical theory above) applies to a planet at ~ 52AU, not 197.7AU. My idea now is, that the phase incoherence, in the signal remaining after white noise subtraction (in Standish's graphs, Figs. 5a & 6a, of Uranus' RA) is inconsistent with Newtonian perturbation by a planet (see previous post; this idea was appended to it, after "nemesis" posted his question).
The 2.4 Earth masses might become zero if Standish's space probe data were perfected. The ephemeris based on Earth-based planetary mass measurements (the basis of Fig. 5a) gives 7.45 Earth masses: almost exactly half the mass of Uranus itself. It's as if Uranus were interacting with itself, through the intermediation of some structure or barrier that orbits at ~ 52AU.
Though my periodograms don't confirm the evidence for Barbarossa that I saw grossly in Standish's Fig. 5a, Standish's analysis doesn't disprove Barbarossa's existence. If Standish's ephemeris is right, his predecessors' ephemerides were wrong; if Standish's predecessors were fallible, then Standish is, too. Also, the ~ 52AU, ~7.45 (~14.6/2!) Earthmass *incoherent* signal in Standish's Fig. 5a, which remains after detrending and de-noising, but is mostly or completely removed by use of space probe planetary mass measurements as in Fig. 6a, indicates new physics.
With new physics, the only way to prove anything is to look, not theorize. My $100 reward offer, previously detailed on this messageboard, still stands. The reward is merely for getting someone really sufficiently equipped, to look definitively; not for looking oneself. Previously on this thread I've listed many reasons for looking. If a dense body isn't there, then likely something just as interesting is.
Regarding *Neptune's* ephemeris, Standish's Fig. 8a remarks that the ephemeris of USNO Publications, Vol. XII, agrees with Standish's, for Neptune's RA, only between 1830 & 1950. Before 1830 & again after 1950, for whatever reasons, the USNO Vol. XII ephemeris gives +20"/century greater RA for Neptune than Standish's does. Pursuant to my recent posts, Barbarossa should cause *Uranus'* time derivative of RA to deviate +/- 0.73"/(84/2/4)*pi/2*100 = +/- 10.92"/century. Tidal acceleration goes as r, time before reversal goes as r^1.5, and subtended angle goes as 1/r. So, Barbarossa should cause *Neptune's* time derivative of RA to deviate +/- 10.92 * (30.07/19.18)^1.5 = +/- 21.44"/century. This is the same deviation of Neptune's time derivative of RA, that by whatever complicated calculation, is seen in USNO Vol. XII vs. Standish.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
16 years 5 months ago #20183
by nemesis
Replied by nemesis on topic Reply from
Sorry, I misunderstood... but wouldn't it be worthwhile to look for a planet of ~4 Earth masses at ~52 AU? It would still be very dim and could have been overlooked. And it shouldn't rule out Barbarossa.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
16 years 5 months ago #20750
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nemesis</i>
<br />Sorry, I misunderstood... but wouldn't it be worthwhile to look for a planet of ~4 Earth masses at ~52 AU? It would still be very dim and could have been overlooked. And it shouldn't rule out Barbarossa.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thanks for emphasizing this. Barbarossa would be the dimmer, because (198/52)^4 = 250 = 6 magnitudes, not enough to compensate for the size difference between a Uranus (i.e., 5-15 Earthmass planet, even if of Earthlike density) and a Jupiter (i.e., quantum mechanical estimate of brown dwarf size). Unfortunately, the phase incoherence of the residual signal I find in Standish's data, leaves the phase indeterminate; furthermore it argues against a planetary cause at all.
The USNO Vol. XII (1929, according to the USNO library webpage) ephemeris for Neptune's RA (according to Standish, Fig. 8a) is consistent with Barbarossa in amplitude, period and phase. The USNO mission is to produce accurate ephemerides by any and all lawful means. Before radio, a cruiser might lose all hands, if the navigator lacked accurate information on the only 3rd mag. star he could identify on a partly cloudy night. Tomorrow, after electronic countermeasures, and the electromagnetic side effects of superweapons such as nuclear bombs, the navigator may well revert to the sextant. I doubt he'd sight Neptune, but if the equivalent of a thousand taxpayer working lives are wasted because the Navy's rocket to Neptune missed, the loss is, in a way, comparable to that of a cruiser.
Fig. 8a (Neptune) resembles the error in fitting 1.5 cycles (trough-peak-trough-peak) of an 80-yr sinusoid, to a cubic curve. For the 120 yr between 1830 & 1950 (Neptune was discovered in 1846, but Neptune's ephemeris can be extrapolated backward) the fit is good, but before and after that, the ephemeris for Neptune's RA deviates roughly as a cubic curve from a sinusoid. The USNO might have tried to adjust for some small unexplained error, by zeroing the discrepant RA, with a cubic curve, at 1930 (approx. date of the catalog), 1850 (approx. beginning of Neptune data) & 1890 (midpoint)(the three roots of the sinusoid). This attempt would begin to fail markedly a quarter cycle away, before 1830 and after 1950, as Fig. 8a shows.
James DeMeo had to fly to Cleveland to rummage through the Physics Dept. at Case Western Reserve Univ. (after tactfully getting permission) to rediscover the only extant copy of Dayton Miller's data, in a cardboard box in a dusty storeroom. Everyone involved with USNO Pubs. Vol. XII is deceased. If notes exist detailing all their corrections, finding them might be like rediscovering something in the Vatican Library. The USNO mission was and is, to produce accurate ephemerides. They understood that there are systematic observation errors, calculation errors, undiscovered planets, unknown forces and unimagined "new physics". A cubic curve might be used to correct a small, incomprehensible discrepancy.
The slope of the discrepancy (after inclusion of such a cubic correction term) in Fig. 8a, at 1830 and 1950 (a sinusoid trough & peak, resp.) would approximate the maximum sinusoid slope due to Barbarossa, i.e., +21.44"/century (see my earlier post).
Not only are the period and amplitude of the unexplained sinusoid (the 1929 USNO approximation of which by a cubic, results in Standish's Fig. 8a) consistent with Barbarossa; so is the phase. One of the times at which the sinusoid should have most negative slope, is c. (1830+1950)/2 = 1890. In 1890.0, I find Neptune's heliocentric ecliptic longitude was 63.5. Barbarossa's effective heliocentric ecliptic longitude was: 173.327 (for 1987.082) - (1987.082-1890.0)/2780*360 (for orbital motion) - 175/4/2780*360 (for retardation of speed change, by a Neptune-minus-Barbarossa quarter cycle vis a vis the tidal acceleration due to Barbarossa) = 155.1. Recalling the 2nd harmonic nature of the tidal force, Neptune's RA should have most positive acceleration at 155.1-45, most negative acceleration at 155.1-135, and zero acceleration, i.e., most negative speed, at 155.1-90=65.1, agreeing perfectly, considering the rough dates (1.6deg < 1yr), with the actual 63.5.
There are many reasons why Standish might find an ephemeris which excludes Barbarossa. However, the 1929 USNO Vol. XII ephemeris, supports Barbarossa's existence, indirectly but accurately confirming the amplitude, period and phase of Barbarossa's predicted tidal effect on Neptune.
<br />Sorry, I misunderstood... but wouldn't it be worthwhile to look for a planet of ~4 Earth masses at ~52 AU? It would still be very dim and could have been overlooked. And it shouldn't rule out Barbarossa.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Thanks for emphasizing this. Barbarossa would be the dimmer, because (198/52)^4 = 250 = 6 magnitudes, not enough to compensate for the size difference between a Uranus (i.e., 5-15 Earthmass planet, even if of Earthlike density) and a Jupiter (i.e., quantum mechanical estimate of brown dwarf size). Unfortunately, the phase incoherence of the residual signal I find in Standish's data, leaves the phase indeterminate; furthermore it argues against a planetary cause at all.
The USNO Vol. XII (1929, according to the USNO library webpage) ephemeris for Neptune's RA (according to Standish, Fig. 8a) is consistent with Barbarossa in amplitude, period and phase. The USNO mission is to produce accurate ephemerides by any and all lawful means. Before radio, a cruiser might lose all hands, if the navigator lacked accurate information on the only 3rd mag. star he could identify on a partly cloudy night. Tomorrow, after electronic countermeasures, and the electromagnetic side effects of superweapons such as nuclear bombs, the navigator may well revert to the sextant. I doubt he'd sight Neptune, but if the equivalent of a thousand taxpayer working lives are wasted because the Navy's rocket to Neptune missed, the loss is, in a way, comparable to that of a cruiser.
Fig. 8a (Neptune) resembles the error in fitting 1.5 cycles (trough-peak-trough-peak) of an 80-yr sinusoid, to a cubic curve. For the 120 yr between 1830 & 1950 (Neptune was discovered in 1846, but Neptune's ephemeris can be extrapolated backward) the fit is good, but before and after that, the ephemeris for Neptune's RA deviates roughly as a cubic curve from a sinusoid. The USNO might have tried to adjust for some small unexplained error, by zeroing the discrepant RA, with a cubic curve, at 1930 (approx. date of the catalog), 1850 (approx. beginning of Neptune data) & 1890 (midpoint)(the three roots of the sinusoid). This attempt would begin to fail markedly a quarter cycle away, before 1830 and after 1950, as Fig. 8a shows.
James DeMeo had to fly to Cleveland to rummage through the Physics Dept. at Case Western Reserve Univ. (after tactfully getting permission) to rediscover the only extant copy of Dayton Miller's data, in a cardboard box in a dusty storeroom. Everyone involved with USNO Pubs. Vol. XII is deceased. If notes exist detailing all their corrections, finding them might be like rediscovering something in the Vatican Library. The USNO mission was and is, to produce accurate ephemerides. They understood that there are systematic observation errors, calculation errors, undiscovered planets, unknown forces and unimagined "new physics". A cubic curve might be used to correct a small, incomprehensible discrepancy.
The slope of the discrepancy (after inclusion of such a cubic correction term) in Fig. 8a, at 1830 and 1950 (a sinusoid trough & peak, resp.) would approximate the maximum sinusoid slope due to Barbarossa, i.e., +21.44"/century (see my earlier post).
Not only are the period and amplitude of the unexplained sinusoid (the 1929 USNO approximation of which by a cubic, results in Standish's Fig. 8a) consistent with Barbarossa; so is the phase. One of the times at which the sinusoid should have most negative slope, is c. (1830+1950)/2 = 1890. In 1890.0, I find Neptune's heliocentric ecliptic longitude was 63.5. Barbarossa's effective heliocentric ecliptic longitude was: 173.327 (for 1987.082) - (1987.082-1890.0)/2780*360 (for orbital motion) - 175/4/2780*360 (for retardation of speed change, by a Neptune-minus-Barbarossa quarter cycle vis a vis the tidal acceleration due to Barbarossa) = 155.1. Recalling the 2nd harmonic nature of the tidal force, Neptune's RA should have most positive acceleration at 155.1-45, most negative acceleration at 155.1-135, and zero acceleration, i.e., most negative speed, at 155.1-90=65.1, agreeing perfectly, considering the rough dates (1.6deg < 1yr), with the actual 63.5.
There are many reasons why Standish might find an ephemeris which excludes Barbarossa. However, the 1929 USNO Vol. XII ephemeris, supports Barbarossa's existence, indirectly but accurately confirming the amplitude, period and phase of Barbarossa's predicted tidal effect on Neptune.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
16 years 5 months ago #20005
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
(sent three minutes ago via JPL website email form)
Attn.: Dr. P. C. Liewer, Jet Propulsion Laboratory (pls. forward)
To: Dr. E. Myles Standish (if active) or his successor (otherwise)
There is an interesting comment that has been made regarding Dr. E. Myles Standish's ephemeris. Apparently this comment only has been published on Dr. Tom Van Flandern's online messageboard (attached to Dr. Van Flandern's website, www.metaresearch.org ) by Joe Keller, date today, May 15, 2008.
Sincerely,
Joseph C. Keller
B.A., cumlaude, Harvard, Mathematics, 1977
Update May 31, 2008: no response of any kind so far, from anyone.
Attn.: Dr. P. C. Liewer, Jet Propulsion Laboratory (pls. forward)
To: Dr. E. Myles Standish (if active) or his successor (otherwise)
There is an interesting comment that has been made regarding Dr. E. Myles Standish's ephemeris. Apparently this comment only has been published on Dr. Tom Van Flandern's online messageboard (attached to Dr. Van Flandern's website, www.metaresearch.org ) by Joe Keller, date today, May 15, 2008.
Sincerely,
Joseph C. Keller
B.A., cumlaude, Harvard, Mathematics, 1977
Update May 31, 2008: no response of any kind so far, from anyone.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
16 years 5 months ago #20010
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
Planet X = Barbarossa : More Dynamical Evidence
Maran et al, Planetary & Space Science 45:1037-1043, 1997, solving differential equations of motion numerically using large amounts of computer time, found the nearest distance at which a Neptune-mass Planet X, could orbit without destabilizing (causing large increases in major axis within 10^6 yr) known Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs). For a circular orbit of i=0 or 5deg inclination, the Planet X distance for which all 14 studied TNOs become stable, is ~62.5AU according to Maran, Table 6, p. 1043. For i=10deg, it's ~58.75AU, and for i=45deg, ~54AU. Interpolating to Barbarossa's i=12deg10' (curiously, the same inclination as "Vulcan") gives 57.125AU.
Maran studied real TNOs with nonzero eccentricity & inclination. To compare Maran's Planet X to Barbarossa, in its effect on a TNO that ranks in the 93rd percentile (i.e., 1 in 14) for vulnerability to destabilization, let's consider a hypothetical TNO with zero eccentricity & inclination, but semimajor axis 45AU instead of the usual 42-43AU for a classical TNO (or 39.44AU for a plutino). As in posts above, the tidal effect is estimated by multiplying the tangential tidal force at quadrature, by the sine of the angle subtended at the sun at quadrature:
M/R^2*(sec^2(theta)-cos(theta))*cos(theta) where sin(theta)=r/R
If this effect is same for Barbarossa as for Maran's hypothetical Planet X (i.e., just enough to destabilize a 93rd percentile, 1 in 14, vulnerable TNO) then Barbarossa must have 3253 Earth masses, agreeing with the 3430 Earth masses I've attributed to Barbarossa by assuming orbital precession resonances in the outer solar system.
Summarizing, Maran's 1997 computation-heavy study of 14 TNOs, found the distance at which a Neptune-mass Planet X in circular orbit, at Barbarossa's inclination, would cause the stability limits of the Edgeworth-Kuiper belt, to be what they are. Using an elementary geometric estimate, I found that a Barbarossa-mass Planet X, in circular orbit at Barbarossa's distance and inclination, also would produce the observed limits of the Edgeworth-Kuiper belt.
Maran et al, Planetary & Space Science 45:1037-1043, 1997, solving differential equations of motion numerically using large amounts of computer time, found the nearest distance at which a Neptune-mass Planet X, could orbit without destabilizing (causing large increases in major axis within 10^6 yr) known Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs). For a circular orbit of i=0 or 5deg inclination, the Planet X distance for which all 14 studied TNOs become stable, is ~62.5AU according to Maran, Table 6, p. 1043. For i=10deg, it's ~58.75AU, and for i=45deg, ~54AU. Interpolating to Barbarossa's i=12deg10' (curiously, the same inclination as "Vulcan") gives 57.125AU.
Maran studied real TNOs with nonzero eccentricity & inclination. To compare Maran's Planet X to Barbarossa, in its effect on a TNO that ranks in the 93rd percentile (i.e., 1 in 14) for vulnerability to destabilization, let's consider a hypothetical TNO with zero eccentricity & inclination, but semimajor axis 45AU instead of the usual 42-43AU for a classical TNO (or 39.44AU for a plutino). As in posts above, the tidal effect is estimated by multiplying the tangential tidal force at quadrature, by the sine of the angle subtended at the sun at quadrature:
M/R^2*(sec^2(theta)-cos(theta))*cos(theta) where sin(theta)=r/R
If this effect is same for Barbarossa as for Maran's hypothetical Planet X (i.e., just enough to destabilize a 93rd percentile, 1 in 14, vulnerable TNO) then Barbarossa must have 3253 Earth masses, agreeing with the 3430 Earth masses I've attributed to Barbarossa by assuming orbital precession resonances in the outer solar system.
Summarizing, Maran's 1997 computation-heavy study of 14 TNOs, found the distance at which a Neptune-mass Planet X in circular orbit, at Barbarossa's inclination, would cause the stability limits of the Edgeworth-Kuiper belt, to be what they are. Using an elementary geometric estimate, I found that a Barbarossa-mass Planet X, in circular orbit at Barbarossa's distance and inclination, also would produce the observed limits of the Edgeworth-Kuiper belt.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Joe Keller
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
16 years 5 months ago #20922
by Joe Keller
Replied by Joe Keller on topic Reply from
(sent three minutes ago to email address listed on univ. website)
Attn.: Prof. J. P. Emerson, Queen Mary/University of London (please forward)
To: Dr. M. D. Maran
Yesterday I discovered your article, "Limitations on the Existence of a Tenth Planet". Your heavy computation found one point on the mass-radius curve constraining any possible Planet X. The actual Planet X, for which there is much evidence, lies elsewhere on this curve.
I've put this evidence on the messageboard of Dr. Tom Van Flandern's website, www.metaresearch.org , under my name, Joe Keller. Today I added a discussion of your article.
Sincerely,
Joseph C. Keller, M. D.
B. A., Harvard, cumlaude, Mathematics, 1977
Update May 31, 2008: no response of any kind so far, from anyone.
Attn.: Prof. J. P. Emerson, Queen Mary/University of London (please forward)
To: Dr. M. D. Maran
Yesterday I discovered your article, "Limitations on the Existence of a Tenth Planet". Your heavy computation found one point on the mass-radius curve constraining any possible Planet X. The actual Planet X, for which there is much evidence, lies elsewhere on this curve.
I've put this evidence on the messageboard of Dr. Tom Van Flandern's website, www.metaresearch.org , under my name, Joe Keller. Today I added a discussion of your article.
Sincerely,
Joseph C. Keller, M. D.
B. A., Harvard, cumlaude, Mathematics, 1977
Update May 31, 2008: no response of any kind so far, from anyone.
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.538 seconds