Broken Circle

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You did not answer my question: What stops me from passing the boundary? If I stick just a hand through, will my hand pass out of existence? If I drive toward the boundary at enormous speed, will something suddenly stop me cold? How can I tell when I'm getting dangerously close? Can I see the boundary when I'm near it? What is it made from? Or how does it differ from empty space that I am free to travel through at will?

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You should start your long journey into metaphysics, or better out of it, by first understanding the notion of necessity and sufficiency. This is a priority in order for you to be able to evaluate statements such as:

[TVF] So "unboundedness" is a necessary property of the universe. It is also the definition of "infinite".

Unboundedness is only a necessary condition for infinity but not sufficient. As an example, think of motion on a circle. There isn't any boundary so the motion can go on forever. But the space is taking place in is finite. So your definition breaks down because I just gave you an example of unbounded motion in a finite universe.

The following questions you're asking are the subject of metaphysics:

[TVF] What stops me from passing the boundary?

Ans. The boundary of course!

[TVF] If I stick just a hand through, will my hand pass out of existence?

Ans. How can you ever stick your hand through a boundary? It wouldn't be a boundary if you could do that! Can you stick your hand through your house wall?

[TVF]If I drive toward the boundary at enormous speed, will something suddenly stop me cold?

Ans. Yes, the boundary. But never try that! It won't be just cold...

[TVF] How can I tell when I'm getting dangerously close?

Ans. You will see a sign: Approaching boundary!

[TVF] Can I see the boundary when I'm near it?

Ans. Yes and No! (Allowed in metaphysics)

[TVF] What is it made from?

Ans. Boundary stuff. What are your house walls made of? Do you live in a park?

[TVF] Or how does it differ from empty space that I am free to travel through at will?

Ans. There is no emtpy space otherwise you wouldn't be able to travel. The boundary differs from emty space in the sense that you cannot travel through it. Actually, the empty space you think the inside is made of is really outside and defines the boundary.

I like metaphysics! It's fun! I haven't had such a great time since kiddengarden. You know TVf, drawing little unicorns in colors...

Patrick,

I completely agree that "mass" is simply borrowed energy but the energy itself is not borrowed. [unquote]

Ans: We agree about mass being nothing but a concentrated form of energy (in my view simular to a standing wave in UniKEF or dimensional pure energy).

But we disagree that energy cannot be created nor destroyed. That is the untested, unproven assumption that is keeping science from attacking this problem of origin of existance.

When you create (+n) energy you must borrow it from <img src=null-set.gif border=0 align=middle>. That expression would be <img src=null-set.gif border=0 align=middle> - (+n) = (-n). The universe has the property or capacity to undo entrophy and create order. When we do that we only borrow from "Something" to reverse entrophy. The Universe apparently doesn't have to.

Glad I'm not "Vermin" but I have been called worse <smile>

JoeW,

I loved your string:

[TVF] What stops me from passing the boundary?

Ans. The boundary of course!

[TVF] If I stick just a hand through, will my hand pass out of existence?

Ans. How can you ever stick your hand through a boundary? It wouldn't be a boundary if you could do that! Can you stick your hand through your house wall?

[TVF]If I drive toward the boundary at enormous speed, will something suddenly stop me cold?

Ans. Yes, the boundary. But never try that! It won't be just cold...

[TVF] How can I tell when I'm getting dangerously close?

Ans. You will see a sign: Approaching boundary!

[TVF] Can I see the boundary when I'm near it?

Ans. Yes and No! (Allowed in metaphysics)

[TVF] What is it made from?

Ans. Boundary stuff. What are your house walls made of? Do you live in a park?

[TVF] Or how does it differ from empty space that I am free to travel through at will?

Ans. There is no emtpy space otherwise you wouldn't be able to travel. The boundary differs from emty space in the sense that you cannot travel through it. Actually, the empty space you think the inside is made of is really outside and defines the boundary.[unquote]

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But at the same time I would have to give you an "E" for effort on being scientific.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

JoeW's last post was the first that actually had be doubled over with laughter. Good ones, Joe. -|Tom|-

Tom,

Your imagination is far superior to mine. I can visualize empty space beyond some boundary, but I cannot even imagine "non-existence" beyond the boundary. What happens if I travel to the boundary? What prevents me from going past it? -|Tom|-[unquote]

I could accept your view that my imagination is superior but that would be taking advantage. Your statement that "I cannot even imagine "non-existence" beyond the boundary."; shows that you are not grasping the meaning of "Non-existance" or of "Boundry".

Let me try to explain it this way. The boundry is a form of Lorentz contraction but is based on distance not velocity. (I may even try to write some formula for it since one doesn't currently exist).

Would you agree that to exist as we understand our existance, we require time, space and energy? This question recognizes that we may not and need not agree on what those enities are.

If we agree then I must ask you what is there beyond where there is no time, space or energy? It isn't a void because that requires space or dimension. I suspect you would notice the same affects approaching such a boundry that you do under Relativity. And that is you would become smaller and smaller, more dense and ultimately cease to exist in time (or have time to exist in) but never have noticed you were phasing out of existance.

Now sticking your very short(1E-43m long) arm and hand out what to you is arms length is in reality only 1E-43m in Universal terms.

This is not an abrupt barrier or wall it is a gradual loss of time space and dimension and NOTHING (NOT SPACE OR VOID) EXISTS BEYOND THAT POINT.

Distance in UniKEF has a Relavistic property, not only due to relative velocity but due to distance as well. The two terms I use are "Qualitative Domain Limit"; which is velocity or an energy relatated boundry (Which you can penetrate by v=>c) and you cease to exist in our Universe. Or the "Quantitative Domain Limit" which is the distance related boundry. It forms someting like a bubble of existance of entities that are in physical connection to you and for which your physics can apply. Beynod that distance "Nothing" exists.

NOW YOU ARE GOING TO LOVE THIS: When you move, the bubble and the boundry moves with you. What is beyond that boundry is more of the same.

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From UniKEF
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DOMAINS

UniKEF Gravity dictates that our Universe is finite. It is believed that the physical Universe is bounded in two forms.



1 - Qualitative. UniKEF is believed to be energy flowing throughout the Universe and consists of a velocity spectrum. Relative velocity represents such a "Qualititative Domain Limit". That is v = c is not a barrier that cannot be exceeded but a limit of physical existance within your Universe.

2 - Quantitative. UniKEF being propagated over vast distance becomes dissapated like rubbing your hands together. As the "c" qualitative band of UniKEF density dimensihes, dimension dimensihes. When that energy no longer exists dimension has contracted to "0" and you have no physical connection to the geocreation beyond that "Quantitative Domain Limit".

Consider the CREATION is a book with fine print where the letters are each in an array of mixed colors. Your reading light has adjustable light frequency for the light being projected.

If you look at a page with a magnifying glass with the light set at a lower frequency, you will see some letters scattered over the page. The ones near the center (your ordinate) are large. The ones near the edges are becoming smaller. Some letters are bright others are more dim. The bright letters are those that are at rest relative to you. The dimmer they are the higher their relative velocity to you. The ones you don't see are beyond your "Qualitative Domain Limit" (v=>c). Letters that are not magnified are those beyond your"Quantitative Domain Limit".

If you now start to increase your light frequency you will see bright letters getting dimmer and dim letters getting brighter and new letters starting to appear. As you continue to increase your light frequencey you will reach a point where the original bright letters will have faded out of existance and the section of your page will have a complete new set of letters. You are now in a totally different Universe "Qualitatively" than you were when you started. If you move the magnifying glass around over the page you will see different letters coming into and out of the range of the magnifying glass. The magnified letters represent your "Quantitative Domain Limit". When you have moved the glass far enough that none of the original letters are in the viewing area, you now exist in a totally new Universe by "Quantitative Domain Limit".

It should be noted that v = > c qualitative seperation allows occupying the same physical quantitative domain at the same time. In UniKEF the Qualitative Domain is the 4th Dimension, not time. Some features of Relativity are in that view movement through the 4th Dimension.

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So we could both be right. The Universe (that which is physical to us) is finite. Relativity is a "Qualitative" view of the Universe.

The "Quantitative" boundry is only of the physical Universe (Your bubble) but the larger creation at this time has no known boundry.

YOU AND I ARE GOING TO DISAGREE FOR CERTAIN AS TO THAT GREATER CREATION BEING FINITE OR INFINITE.

But my arguement there would have to rely on purely conceptual limitations when it comes to describing reality in terms of infinity.

The above Qualitative and Quantitative Domain Limits to the physical Universe are dictate two ways.

1 - UniKEF gravity requires that the Universe be finite (Once you see the correlation between "Pushing Gravity" and "UniKEF Gravity" and the calculus that predicts how gravity is produced, you will understand the requirement.

2 - Both Domain concepts fit observation. "Qualitative" fits Relativity. "Quantitative" fits gravity and recent measurements that have found the Earth appears to be in the center of the Universe (Predicted by UniKEF). NOTE: That is not the same thing as center of creation or the Big Bang origin if that is the origin of existance.



Dan Keith Mccoin

UniKEF Author

Congratulations on Tom breaching 600 posts! - MV