Relavistic Pi

mac (sorry i got you confused with mark!)

your PI problem is going to take some time.also i have looked up "chiral condensate",it is fasinating stuff!!

but if i may ask a bit off topic question.

there seems to be this obsession with time with people.

what would happen do you think if this twin problem of relativity would NOT include time in its calculation.you know the one,one stays here the other travels at near the speed of light to somewhere,what is the age difference?i just find time so,well arbitrary,i am just not convinced it is a true dimension,space,depth and lenght solid,but i find time a non absolute measurement,to arbitrary based.(space,depth,lenght are three dimen.to me but time seems only one dimen.forward)

i hope i put this clear!(am i missing something!)

mac

i have read over and over your pi problem,i think it finaly clicked!

what if instead of short rulers you used rulers which were the FULL length of the circumference.therefore the outside of the rule would shrink FIRST!

therefore would not the diameter shrink first because the speed would affect the outside of the circle first.

or lets try a rod which has the flexibility of a thermometer,its fluid.which means,(and to me this is hard to imagine)what would happen?,where would the fluid flow to?would it divide,if so, how much,and where in the rule?

in other words i agree with you!(i don't have the math back ground to follow this through)but i am willing to bet it will all flow to the diameter there fore expanding the diameter!!the implication being that from the galilean point of view it actually expands!!

and that what effects one immediately affects the other!!

mac

supplemental;

rotation is not the same as a vortex.

only a vortex can cause something to "shrink".

for instance, if i put a drop of water on a top it flys off,why?because it is rotation.a vortex can only become at the top or the bottom of a rotating mass.rotation is parallel to its centre,therefore it either comes to a equilibrium or it expands.

EXCEPTION;the rotation slows down and gravity (which to me is "ordered space")takes over.now this would depend on the rate of decrease in rotation,but this would not affect measurements since it does not have the energy.

Hi north,

You and I generally agree on time. I do not see it as a physical reality or a dimension at all. I see 3D's only. Space being created via a kenetic energy field. The flow of the energy drives the universe. That is down to the formation of particles and the motions of sub-atomic particles. Such energy transfers causes changes. The changes throughout the universe are linked to all planck ordinate points in the universe and as information about change merge at a specific point those events consititute a Dynamic Present. We catalog such Dynamic Presents and that creates the illusion of time flow.

The Relavistic Pi question is actually quite simple. You don't need math to answer it. My post was a complaint about Relavists that use the claim of the shorter ruler at the rim of a rotating platform as a phenomena of Relativity.

The simple point I have tried to make is that it doens't matter if the ruler shrinks at the rim due to velocity and/or the radius shrinks due to centrifugal force (acceleration - gravity) because whatever affect, by any theory, must cause the rotating disk to shrink as well and any change would be immeasurable. There simply is no change in the Pi calculation because the affect cannot be measured.

The easiest way to convience yourself of this fact is to consider the merry go round to be fabricated out of rulers. If the ruler in you hand shnges then so does the one the m-g-r is made of.

Mac, perhaps you would like the late Herbert Ive's answer to this question. He considered a rotating flat disk and his solution was that the disk's circumference could only contract by the disk becoming ever more concave so that the <img src=icon_pi.gif border=0 align=middle> relationship is maintained.

Jeremy,

Actually, I don't have a problem with that. If the circumference contracts due to velocity and teh radius contracts due to acceleration (grvity equivenence principle), those two function are not equal and someting has to give.

But the issue wsn't if any how there was contraction but the lousy presentation made by relavists that say the ruler contracts at the circumference which result in a different measurement hence a chnging Pi value.

If the ruler is affect so is the disk circumference. that can be no meaurabel affect of motion in int frame of reference.