- Thank you received: 0
Idol curiosity?
18 years 9 months ago #14646
by Julio
Reply from Julio Ogazón was created by Julio
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thebobgy</i>
<br />“I think, therefor I am” <i>author unknown</i><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Actually the author is known
"Je pense, donc je suis", René Descartes, Discours de la méthode, 1637
translated as "I think, therefore I am", René Descartes, Discourse on Method, 1637
<br />“I think, therefor I am” <i>author unknown</i><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Actually the author is known
"Je pense, donc je suis", René Descartes, Discours de la méthode, 1637
translated as "I think, therefore I am", René Descartes, Discourse on Method, 1637
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- tvanflandern
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
18 years 9 months ago #14651
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
We will eventually be able to simulate with computers all of the mental abilities that humans have. My partial list (additional contributions appreciated) reads:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">reasoning, short-term memory, long-term memory, memory reconstruction, abstraction, induction, intuition, deduction, creativity, analysis, visualization, organization, synthesis, empathy, collation, computation, judgment, learning, ability to unlearn or correct error, problem-solving ability, motivation, normal association (pattern recognition), creative free-association (“thinking outside the box”), communication, awareness, nurturing, ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off, mental model-building<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Not on this list is "consciousness" and its closely related ally "self-awareness". Recent experiments in physical psychology cast doubt on the mystical view of consciousness that humans have long fostered. Instead of being a manifestation of intelligence, consciousness appears to be nothing more than an instant replay (delayed by about 1/4 second) of what just happened, together with the added illusion that the conscious mind sent commands to the body about how to perform. Reality is that the autonomic nervous system acts in accord with subconscious programming well before commands can travel from the brain. Reality is also that our mental screens are reconstructions by the brain based on sensory input and subconscious algorithms, and not simply a faithful reproduction of the light images presented to our eyes.
Given this demystification of consciousness, one must wonder how we differ from advanced computers placed in a biological shell for ease of repair and replication. -|Tom|-
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">reasoning, short-term memory, long-term memory, memory reconstruction, abstraction, induction, intuition, deduction, creativity, analysis, visualization, organization, synthesis, empathy, collation, computation, judgment, learning, ability to unlearn or correct error, problem-solving ability, motivation, normal association (pattern recognition), creative free-association (“thinking outside the box”), communication, awareness, nurturing, ability to distinguish reality from fantasy, ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off, mental model-building<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Not on this list is "consciousness" and its closely related ally "self-awareness". Recent experiments in physical psychology cast doubt on the mystical view of consciousness that humans have long fostered. Instead of being a manifestation of intelligence, consciousness appears to be nothing more than an instant replay (delayed by about 1/4 second) of what just happened, together with the added illusion that the conscious mind sent commands to the body about how to perform. Reality is that the autonomic nervous system acts in accord with subconscious programming well before commands can travel from the brain. Reality is also that our mental screens are reconstructions by the brain based on sensory input and subconscious algorithms, and not simply a faithful reproduction of the light images presented to our eyes.
Given this demystification of consciousness, one must wonder how we differ from advanced computers placed in a biological shell for ease of repair and replication. -|Tom|-
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
18 years 9 months ago #14660
by thebobgy
Replied by thebobgy on topic Reply from Robert (Bob) Smith
Thank you for your reply Tom, I can see you have give the subject some serious thought. Before I begin I want to thank Julio for the information.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
We will eventually be able to simulate with computers all of the mental abilities that humans have.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And when we get the chip connection to the brain “hooked up right” the computer will have the same physical abilities also.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Instead of being a manifestation of intelligence, consciousness appears to be nothing more than an instant replay (delayed by about 1/4 second) of what just happened, together with the added illusion that the conscious mind sent commands to the body about how to perform.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“I think, therefor I am...or at least I will be in about 1/4 second” Interesting!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Given this demystification of consciousness, one must wonder how we differ from advanced computers placed in a biological shell for ease of repair and replication. -|Tom|-<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“We” are what we are because of the random chance of evolution I see no reason to believe our electronic posterity will not endure similar changes.
I do have one more curiosity, self-actuation, I think it would apply to “...[the] ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off,” Have you ever made a conscious effort to NOT think?
Thank you for your time.
thebobgy
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
We will eventually be able to simulate with computers all of the mental abilities that humans have.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
And when we get the chip connection to the brain “hooked up right” the computer will have the same physical abilities also.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Instead of being a manifestation of intelligence, consciousness appears to be nothing more than an instant replay (delayed by about 1/4 second) of what just happened, together with the added illusion that the conscious mind sent commands to the body about how to perform.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“I think, therefor I am...or at least I will be in about 1/4 second” Interesting!
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Given this demystification of consciousness, one must wonder how we differ from advanced computers placed in a biological shell for ease of repair and replication. -|Tom|-<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“We” are what we are because of the random chance of evolution I see no reason to believe our electronic posterity will not endure similar changes.
I do have one more curiosity, self-actuation, I think it would apply to “...[the] ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off,” Have you ever made a conscious effort to NOT think?
Thank you for your time.
thebobgy
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- tvanflandern
- Offline
- Platinum Member
Less
More
- Thank you received: 0
18 years 9 months ago #16999
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by thebobgy</i>
<br />“...[the] ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off,” Have you ever made a conscious effort to NOT think?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">A corollary of the conscious mind being a replay or monitor and not an actual controller is that we lack the ability to "turn it off" other than by losing consciousness.
The idea takes some getting used to, but it seems to be the case that the subconscious does the real decision making and "thinking", then patronizes us by replaying thought words in our conscious minds to maintain that illusion of control. Trying not to think is then just another idea of the subconscious, which is programmed to send its "thoughts" to the monitor (our conscious minds). Do we have the ability to rewrite the program using Will alone? I doubt that. -|Tom|-
<br />“...[the] ability to direct thought – to turn it on and off,” Have you ever made a conscious effort to NOT think?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">A corollary of the conscious mind being a replay or monitor and not an actual controller is that we lack the ability to "turn it off" other than by losing consciousness.
The idea takes some getting used to, but it seems to be the case that the subconscious does the real decision making and "thinking", then patronizes us by replaying thought words in our conscious minds to maintain that illusion of control. Trying not to think is then just another idea of the subconscious, which is programmed to send its "thoughts" to the monitor (our conscious minds). Do we have the ability to rewrite the program using Will alone? I doubt that. -|Tom|-
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
18 years 9 months ago #14667
by PhilJ
Replied by PhilJ on topic Reply from Philip Janes
We recently discussed this topic at length under
Why do we need to know?
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
18 years 9 months ago #14669
by thebobgy
Replied by thebobgy on topic Reply from Robert (Bob) Smith
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by PhilJ</i>
<br />We recently discussed this topic at length under Why do we need to know?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“We” meaning whom, PhilJ. I do not see where I participated in that thread and I do not believe I should be precluded from going to a deeper level if I choose. If you have a problem with my Posts then I suggest taking it to the monitor but I would point out that Tom did not take offense with my questions and I would also point out that my questions are well within the study limits of Cosmology, Metaphysics and Ontology.
Thank you for your time.
thebobgy
<br />We recently discussed this topic at length under Why do we need to know?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
“We” meaning whom, PhilJ. I do not see where I participated in that thread and I do not believe I should be precluded from going to a deeper level if I choose. If you have a problem with my Posts then I suggest taking it to the monitor but I would point out that Tom did not take offense with my questions and I would also point out that my questions are well within the study limits of Cosmology, Metaphysics and Ontology.
Thank you for your time.
thebobgy
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
Time to create page: 0.367 seconds