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Physical Axioms and Attractive Forces
17 years 7 months ago #16632
by Spacedust
Replied by Spacedust on topic Reply from Warren York
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Gregg</i>
<br />One of the principles of Metascience is "no action at a distance". In other words entities must have contact with one another in order to have an interchange of momentum. Does this not invalidate the concept of attractive force?
Gregg Wilson
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">[8D] Entanglment
The only option if man is going to reach the Stars in a lifetime is to master both Space and Time. Warp Technology today!
<br />One of the principles of Metascience is "no action at a distance". In other words entities must have contact with one another in order to have an interchange of momentum. Does this not invalidate the concept of attractive force?
Gregg Wilson
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">[8D] Entanglment
The only option if man is going to reach the Stars in a lifetime is to master both Space and Time. Warp Technology today!
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- Larry Burford
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17 years 7 months ago #19424
by Larry Burford
Replied by Larry Burford on topic Reply from Larry Burford
It actually takes practice to learn how to post to a technical discussion and NOT stink up the place with the occasional intellectual equivalent of a f*rt. If one were to go back through all of my old posts, one would see that I have grown quite a bit over the years.
Some have commented on my leanient moderating in certain threads and strict moderating in others. This double standard really exists. It has a number of motivations. My goal is not always the same. I tend to give new people a little more room. Sometimes what works on one poster does not work on another. Sometimes I learn things (not necessarily in the field of astronomy) by watching a particular person "test the system". Etc.
Some have commented on my leanient moderating in certain threads and strict moderating in others. This double standard really exists. It has a number of motivations. My goal is not always the same. I tend to give new people a little more room. Sometimes what works on one poster does not work on another. Sometimes I learn things (not necessarily in the field of astronomy) by watching a particular person "test the system". Etc.
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17 years 7 months ago #19425
by Gregg
Replied by Gregg on topic Reply from Gregg Wilson
Do me a favor? See if you can find alternate wording for this. I've been thinking about asking a similar question, but have not because I'm still looking for wording that avoids the personal attack aspect.
LB
[/quote]
I think we have both underestimated nonneta's knowledge and critical faculty.
I am in agreement with "orange juice rules" but if another person violates it, I do not feel duty bound to pretend there has been not an insult.
I do not presume to know what nonneta's objective is. But, he has indicated that answers of substance would come from him if we reach that intellectual point. This might be true.
The original subject was Physical Axioms as defined by Dr. Van Flandern in his article "Physics has Its Principles" versus the idea of Attractive Forces. I have accepted his presentation. So, I do think that my question is rational and objective.
I began with introducing the gravitational flux and then the light carrying medium. I postulated that with these two mediums only, there was no apparent cause for waves or mass movement in either medium. I then began to put in the proton to see how it would interact with the two mediums. You suddenly jumped in with a proton or a star (you claim there is no difference) traveling at 1% the velocity of light and decreed that the proton and its geometry were physically irrelevant since the proton can push its way through the lcm. That is quite a leap of faith. How did the proton or star acquire such a speed?
I will get to the central point. Is this board for exploratory debate or are you Defending The Faith? If it is the latter, then I am wasting my time.
Let's step back in history a bit. By 1900, the gravitational medium and the light carrying medium had been judged to be nonexistent. IMHO, this left theoretical physicists 2/3rds blind. They began to invent a host of fundamental particles for which there is no positive proof.
To the credit of Dr. Van Flandern, et al, these two fundamental particles and mediums have been reintroduced back into the realm of theoretical physics. I have accepted his logic and evidence. However, Metaresearch has openly admitted that the realm of molecules, atoms, nuclei are virgin territory for Metascience.
You have dismissed the proton out of hand by declaring it is nothing more than an accidental, small comet, etc. This declaration ignores an immense level of knowledge (facts) in chemistry and nuclear physics. IMHO, Metascience is 1/3rd blind when it does this.
I work as an engineer in the business of extracting oil, bitumen, oil shale, coal, etc. This source of energy is reaching a dead end in the following sense: at the end of WW II, the technology of propeller driven aircraft had reached its maximum. Any further progress would have to be done by a different technology. We are at this point in regard to general energy sources. I recognise that what I am doing is supporting the status quo and it is not real progress.
It is a safe assumption that a high majority of Metaresearch members are for going to Mars. A manned expedition will never happen with chemical rocketry. There has to be a new energy source. Conventional nuclear fission is not the answer. It is actually very inefficient and carries are very high burden of radioactive waste.
My aiming point is to investigate the potential of fissioning deuterium. This would be 50 times more efficient then plutonium fissioning and there is no radioactive waste. Mainstream science declares that the mechanism is nuclear fusion. However, there has been no progress in this idea for half a century. Perhaps they are 180 degrees out of alignment with Reality.
The route to this possibility is to investigate the proton. My idea may turn out to be completely wrong. If it is, I will admit to it. Since the established nuclear physics crowd "already knows everything", appealing to them is pointless. I have come to Metaresearch because of tts claim that it will look at unconventional ideas.
enuf said.
Gregg Wilson
LB
[/quote]
I think we have both underestimated nonneta's knowledge and critical faculty.
I am in agreement with "orange juice rules" but if another person violates it, I do not feel duty bound to pretend there has been not an insult.
I do not presume to know what nonneta's objective is. But, he has indicated that answers of substance would come from him if we reach that intellectual point. This might be true.
The original subject was Physical Axioms as defined by Dr. Van Flandern in his article "Physics has Its Principles" versus the idea of Attractive Forces. I have accepted his presentation. So, I do think that my question is rational and objective.
I began with introducing the gravitational flux and then the light carrying medium. I postulated that with these two mediums only, there was no apparent cause for waves or mass movement in either medium. I then began to put in the proton to see how it would interact with the two mediums. You suddenly jumped in with a proton or a star (you claim there is no difference) traveling at 1% the velocity of light and decreed that the proton and its geometry were physically irrelevant since the proton can push its way through the lcm. That is quite a leap of faith. How did the proton or star acquire such a speed?
I will get to the central point. Is this board for exploratory debate or are you Defending The Faith? If it is the latter, then I am wasting my time.
Let's step back in history a bit. By 1900, the gravitational medium and the light carrying medium had been judged to be nonexistent. IMHO, this left theoretical physicists 2/3rds blind. They began to invent a host of fundamental particles for which there is no positive proof.
To the credit of Dr. Van Flandern, et al, these two fundamental particles and mediums have been reintroduced back into the realm of theoretical physics. I have accepted his logic and evidence. However, Metaresearch has openly admitted that the realm of molecules, atoms, nuclei are virgin territory for Metascience.
You have dismissed the proton out of hand by declaring it is nothing more than an accidental, small comet, etc. This declaration ignores an immense level of knowledge (facts) in chemistry and nuclear physics. IMHO, Metascience is 1/3rd blind when it does this.
I work as an engineer in the business of extracting oil, bitumen, oil shale, coal, etc. This source of energy is reaching a dead end in the following sense: at the end of WW II, the technology of propeller driven aircraft had reached its maximum. Any further progress would have to be done by a different technology. We are at this point in regard to general energy sources. I recognise that what I am doing is supporting the status quo and it is not real progress.
It is a safe assumption that a high majority of Metaresearch members are for going to Mars. A manned expedition will never happen with chemical rocketry. There has to be a new energy source. Conventional nuclear fission is not the answer. It is actually very inefficient and carries are very high burden of radioactive waste.
My aiming point is to investigate the potential of fissioning deuterium. This would be 50 times more efficient then plutonium fissioning and there is no radioactive waste. Mainstream science declares that the mechanism is nuclear fusion. However, there has been no progress in this idea for half a century. Perhaps they are 180 degrees out of alignment with Reality.
The route to this possibility is to investigate the proton. My idea may turn out to be completely wrong. If it is, I will admit to it. Since the established nuclear physics crowd "already knows everything", appealing to them is pointless. I have come to Metaresearch because of tts claim that it will look at unconventional ideas.
enuf said.
Gregg Wilson
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- MarkVitrone
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17 years 7 months ago #16635
by MarkVitrone
Replied by MarkVitrone on topic Reply from Mark Vitrone
Okay folks, I get a cold, go out of town, see a baseball game and in my absence everything goes to hell in a handbasket. Here is my opinion - it isn't humble either.
Nonneta: Get to the point. I read you replies and cannot understand sometimes what it is you want to say. It seems that you find your role to be Devil's Advocate. That is fine in a logical argument to play that role. Just tell the rest of us.
Gregg: We don't need to call anyone stupid or smart (we probably would be right and wrong simulataneously) I deleted the reply.
Nonneta: A suggestion. Make a flow chart of your ideas. I suggest Power Point slide insertion into a message. With some practice its easy and a picture is sometimes worth a thousand words.
FOLKS: Metascience has a shaky interpretation of the tiniest particles. This has been admitted by TVF in a published work! Pointing this out does not invalidate the MM. Part of our job (yes, everyone contributing to this messageboard is part of the scientific method) is to steer desire for further research and a scientific progression that is deductive instead of inductive. Perhaps some of you should join the Taiwanese Parliment. They frequently beat each other over the heads with canes and chairs when they disagree.
I read this whole thread tonight and do not know everyones position. Not liking someone else's position is not a position - its a cop out!
Before making hasty replies, read, think, read, think, write, edit, revise, ask advice
Then post it if its your own work. Heavy emphasis on the think. If you make a statement, define your variables so that any casual observer who happens upon these threads can see a civilized discussion about relavent scientific thoughts.
Nobody is toting the Party Line here. I take this task of moderation seriously because I take all of you seriously. I don't want to see valuable people run off because they never learned keep their tongues silent if they don't having something nice to say.
Lets get back to deciding whether or not attraction occurs. If you support attraction then give some examples of experiments - preferably ones that I can look up and verify.
If you support pushing forces and reject attractions then state experiments that I can look up and verify.
The neah neah neah neah boo boo crap is done.
Good Night
Mark Vitrone
Nonneta: Get to the point. I read you replies and cannot understand sometimes what it is you want to say. It seems that you find your role to be Devil's Advocate. That is fine in a logical argument to play that role. Just tell the rest of us.
Gregg: We don't need to call anyone stupid or smart (we probably would be right and wrong simulataneously) I deleted the reply.
Nonneta: A suggestion. Make a flow chart of your ideas. I suggest Power Point slide insertion into a message. With some practice its easy and a picture is sometimes worth a thousand words.
FOLKS: Metascience has a shaky interpretation of the tiniest particles. This has been admitted by TVF in a published work! Pointing this out does not invalidate the MM. Part of our job (yes, everyone contributing to this messageboard is part of the scientific method) is to steer desire for further research and a scientific progression that is deductive instead of inductive. Perhaps some of you should join the Taiwanese Parliment. They frequently beat each other over the heads with canes and chairs when they disagree.
I read this whole thread tonight and do not know everyones position. Not liking someone else's position is not a position - its a cop out!
Before making hasty replies, read, think, read, think, write, edit, revise, ask advice
Then post it if its your own work. Heavy emphasis on the think. If you make a statement, define your variables so that any casual observer who happens upon these threads can see a civilized discussion about relavent scientific thoughts.
Nobody is toting the Party Line here. I take this task of moderation seriously because I take all of you seriously. I don't want to see valuable people run off because they never learned keep their tongues silent if they don't having something nice to say.
Lets get back to deciding whether or not attraction occurs. If you support attraction then give some examples of experiments - preferably ones that I can look up and verify.
If you support pushing forces and reject attractions then state experiments that I can look up and verify.
The neah neah neah neah boo boo crap is done.
Good Night
Mark Vitrone
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17 years 7 months ago #16636
by MarkVitrone
Replied by MarkVitrone on topic Reply from Mark Vitrone
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17 years 7 months ago #16637
by MarkVitrone
Replied by MarkVitrone on topic Reply from Mark Vitrone
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