Large Hadron Collider

Well Sloat you left a fine mess here didn't you. There are elements of scifi and modeling that could be deleted for starters. And then the Z&W particles are still around but most else is gone. The decay of the Z results in protons or am I misinformed on this point? What happens to the W after it is created?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jim</i>
<br />Well Sloat you left a fine mess here didn't you. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Hi Jim

I have been gone on engineering assignments. There has been a great industry built up around discovering new, fundamental particles. That is how you keep your research job and get a new budget each year.

IMHO, only three particles are needed to "create" everything we observe. The graviton, the elyson, and the proton. One can describe the "universe" at the atomic level in one of two ways:

1) All the fundamental particles are alive, have a consciousness, understand the myriad of rules and make the correct, obedient decision everytime. Thus you have an infinite number of particles making the correct -<b>proactive</b>- decisions every femto-pico-micro second.

Or,

2) Replace that with geometry. The geometry for a proton, if correct, enables every particle to be absolutely lifeless and utterly passive in its behavior. All actions involve collisions, which transfer momentum, and all the complexities we see can be explained by geometry.

Which is the simpler Universe?

Gregg Wilson

Hi Jim, sorry you didn't like the sci fi stuff but Scotty was right, the inertial dampers are way over spec. If you went to the Marine Corp and said you had a Harrier jump jet, that was 50 mph slower than the one they've got but could pull alpha particle g, they would give you a blank cheque to fill in.

The W particles, plus and minus, change electrons into pos and neg neutrinos. The Z is more subtle, it controls neutral currents It's been used to "explain" the solar neutrino problem.

Where do they go? They don't decay, they are emitted or absorbed in the decay of the particles of which they are the transfer particle.

A bit more sci fi [] We have to at least consider how a negative mass ftl particle would handle an, on the button, hit on a proton. It would hit at 20 billion times c. Push on negative mass and it pushes back [8D] The "atmosphere" of the proton will push back. So, it speeds up. The "atmosphere" of the proton cannot handle it, so it stops pushing. The negative mass ftl particle will reach an equilibrium point at the speed of light. It bounces out at the speed of light but it needs to lower its energy by acccelerating back up to 20 billion c. All of the energy that it gave thr proton serves to bind our three quarks together. It's a Le Sage mechanism, but not as we know it Jim [8D]

Sorry about that Jim, I couldn't resist the little Star Trek witticism []

You guys are not telling me what is happening to the result of the process. The Z&W are made by the machine but then what happens to them? I was told the Z becomes protons. I never looked into the W. I don't mind the mix of sifi and models with real events but I need to sort the three in order to understand.

Well, the machine doesn't exactly "make" the W and Z, it's a microscope that just happens to blast tthe specimen to bits as it "looks" at it . The W and Z are said to unify the electromagnetic force and the weak atomic force, the electroweak theory. Note that gravity isn't in there at all, so how is it a unification? For the strong atomic force we need analogous super massive exchange particles. It might be the case that we are talking about some sort of "bloated" Z particles, or perhaps we should call them something different. They can't really be given a name untill they are found. That is part of what this new atom smasher is about.

Some people will believe that we will unify the strong atomic force with this machine but if gravity's not part of it, then it can't be a GUT theory.

Where it's of interst to this board, is in the idea of the higgs. It involves a tachyon condensation. There's also the point that guage theory works reasonably well for Lorentzian relativity but not for Einstein's. Find a way to put gravity in there and the quantum world can be married to the macro world.

What do you mean the machine doesn't make Z&W particles? I am refering to way back machines from the 80s that did this so I wonder if you know about that work as to weather or not the Z decays into protons? I guess you are talking about the new work being done now. I am confused about how you mix models and real events and I'm trying to sort it out.