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Quantized redshift anomaly
18 years 10 months ago #13054
by Tommy
Replied by Tommy on topic Reply from Thomas Mandel
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The color spectrum depicts radiation in the form of light thus the color bouncing back is red meaning it is moving farther away; indesputable. However, does cosmic background radiation show temperature? Can we measure the tempurature of the edges of our universe thus a solar system of universes with a massive sunburst what I call it supply heat energy to other universes within our solar system of universes also the rate of expansion the doplar shift shows expansion at an accelerated rate. The larger the mass the more smaller masses it attracts could our universe be being pulled into expansion by more mass and when it reaches a critical phase where there is no where else for it to go it would just implode or fuse.
ryan Henningsgaard<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The color spectrum depicts radiation in the form of light thus the color bouncing back is red meaning it is moving farther away; indesputable.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Very interesting, if this were true, then why don't we see red starlight? I am confused, I keep hearing about the frequency of light being shifted by velocity, but isn't it the spectral lines being shifted toward the red?
It is not indisputable that redshift means it is moving farther away, it is and always was just an assmption. Hubble himself did not believe that assumption, and Tifft's findings indicate that the redshift does not jibe with distance in the expected way. IF the redshift indicates velocity and distance, then the observations show that we live in the center of an onionlike universe,
As far as the CMB is concerned. I came across this article less than a minute before reading you comment -- <blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation
June 2003 - 23[6]:49-63
The Big Bang Theory—A Scientific Critique [Part II] [Whole]
by Bert Thompson, Ph.D., Brad Harrub, Ph.D., and Branyon May
Printer version | Email this article
[EDITOR’S NOTE: With the May issue of Reason & Revelation, we started a three-part series investigating the Big Bang Theory. Part I began with a historical introduction, moved on to an examination of some of the scientific concepts upon which the Big Bang has been constructed, and ended with a section on why the Big Bang is scientifically flawed. Part II, below, picks up where Part I concluded, in examining additional reasons why the Big Bang Theory is not a valid option for the origin of the Universe.]
COSMIC MICROWAVE BACKGROUND RADIATION
In 1978, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson were honored with the Nobel Prize in physics for their discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation (referred to variously in the literature as CMB, CMR, or CBR; we will use the CMB designation throughout our discussion). The two researchers from Bell Laboratory serendipitously stumbled onto this phenomenon in June 1964, after first thinking it was an equipment malfunction. For a short while, they even attributed the background noise to what they referred to as “white dielectric material”—i.e., bird droppings (Fox, 2002, p. 78). The electromagnetic radiation they were experiencing was independent of the spot in the sky where they were focusing the antenna, and was only a faint “hiss” or “hum” in its magnitude. The microwaves, which can be related to temperature, produced the equivalent of approximately 3.5 K background radiation at 7.3 cm wavelength (“K” stands for Kelvin, the standard scientific temperature scale; 0 K equals absolute zero—the theoretical point at which all motion ceases: -459° Fahrenheit or -273° Celsius). Unable to decide why they were encountering this phenomenon, Penzias and Wilson sought the assistance of Robert Dicke at Princeton University who, with his colleagues, immediately latched onto this noise as the “echo” of the Big Bang. A prediction had been made prior to the discovery, that if the Big Bang were true, there should be some sort of constant radiation in space, although the prediction was for a temperature several times higher (see Weinberg, 1977, p. 50; Hoyle, et al., 2000, p. 80).
Figure 1 — Artist’s concept of crucial periods in the development of the Universe according to Big Bang inflationary cosmology
Previously, in our section on the Steady State Theory, we referred to the fact that a “new theoretical concept” eventually would be responsible for dethroning that theory. Our reference was to Penzias and Wilson’s discovery of the existence of the cosmic microwave background radiation. Described by some evolutionists as the “remnant afterglow of the Big Bang,” it is viewed as a faint light shining back to the beginning of the Universe (well, at least close to the beginning...say, within 300,000 to 400,000 years or so). This radiation, found in the form of microwaves, has been seized upon by proponents of the Big Bang Theory as proof of an initial catastrophic beginning—the “bang”—of our Universe. However, the temperature estimates of “space” were first published in 1896, even prior to George Gamow’s birth in 1904 (see Guillaume, 1896). C.E. Guillaume’s estimation was 5-6 K, and rather than blaming that temperature on some type of “Big Bang” explosion, he credited the stars belonging to our own galaxy.
The cosmic background radiation spelled almost instant doom for the Steady State Theory, because the theory did not predict a background radiation (since there was no initial outpouring of radiation in that model). Plus, there was no way to introduce the idea of such background radiation into the existing theory. Therefore, the Quasi-Steady-State Theory, a slight variation by Hoyle, Burbidge, and Narlikar, was formed to try to make sense of this “chink” in the armor of the Steady State Theory. The British science journal Nature stated it well: “Nobody should be surprised, therefore, if the handful of those who reject the Big Bang claim the new data as support for their theories also” (see “Big Bang Brouhaha,” 1992, 356:731). The prediction made by Nature was right on target. The CMB radiation data have indeed been used by almost all theorists as an ad hoc support for their views. A logical question to ask would be: “Do these various groups all claim it on the same scientific grounds?” The answer, of course, is no.
Speaking of the CMB radiation, Joseph Silk referred to the results as “the cornerstone of Big Bang cosmology” (1992, p. 741). There can be no doubt that there exists a cosmic electromagnetic radiation on the microwave order, and that its temperature correlation is approximately 3 K (technically 2.728 K; see Harrison, 2000, p. 394). This fact is not in dispute—verifiable data have been compiled from the numerous experiments that have been conducted. As David Berlinski observed: “The cosmic hum is real enough, and so, too, is the fact that the universe is bathed in background radiation” (1998, p. 30). The ground data have been collected using the Caltech radio millimeter interferometer and the Owens Valley Array. Low-atmosphere instruments also have recorded CMB radiation using two balloon flights: MAXIMA (which, in 1998, flew at a height of approximately 24.5 miles for one night over Texas) and BOOMERANG (which, in 1998, flew at a height of around 23.5 miles for ten days over Antarctica), as well as from the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) and the Microwave Anisotropy Probe (MAP) satellite missions by NASA [see Figure 4] (Peterson, 1990; Flam, 1992; Musser, 2000).
What is in dispute is the explanation for the phenomenon. The late Sir Arthur Eddington—in his book, The Internal Constitution of the Stars (1926)—already had provided an accurate explanation for this temperature found in space. In the book’s last chapter (“Diffuse Matter in Space”), he discussed the temperature in space. In Eddington’s estimation, this phenomenon was not due to some ancient explosion, but rather was simply the background radiation from all of the heat sources that occupy the Universe. He calculated the minimum temperature to which any particular body in space would cool, given the fact that such bodies constantly are immersed in the radiation of distant starlight. With no adjustable parameters, he obtained a value of 3.18 K (later refined to 2.
—essentially the same as the observed “background” radiation that is known to exist today.
In 1933, German scientist Erhard Regener showed that the intensity of the radiation coming from the plane of the Milky Way was essentially the same as that coming from a plane normal to it. He obtained a value of 2.8 K, which he felt would be the temperature characteristic of intergalactic space (Regener, 1933). His prediction came more than thirty years before Penzias and Wilson’s discovery of the cosmic microwave background. The radiation that Big Bang theorists predicted was supposed to be much hotter than what was actually discovered. Gamow started his prediction at 5 K, and just a few years before Penzias and Wilson’s discovery, suggested that it should be 50 K (see Alpher and Herman, 1949; Gamow, 1961). As Van Flandern noted:
The amount of radiation emitted by distant galaxies falls with increasing wavelengths, as expected if the longer wavelengths are scattered by the intergalactic medium. For example, the brightness ratio of radio galaxies at infrared and radio wavelengths changes with distance in a way which implies absorption. Basically, this means that the longer wavelengths are more easily absorbed by material between the galaxies. But then the microwave radiation (between the two wavelengths) should be absorbed by that medium too, and has no chance to reach us from such great distances, or to remain perfectly uniform while doing so. It must instead result from the radiation of microwaves from the intergalactic medium. This argument alone implies that the microwaves could not be coming directly to us from a distance beyond all the galaxies, and therefore that the Big Bang theory cannot be correct.
None of the predictions of the background temperature based on the Big Bang was close enough to qualify as successes, the worst being Gamow’s upward-revised estimate of 50 K made in 1961, just two years before the actual discovery. Clearly, without a realistic quantitative prediction, the Big Bang’s hypothetical “fireball” becomes indistinguishable from the natural minimum temperature of all cold matter in space (2002, 9:73-74, parenthetical item in orig., emp. added).
From www.apologeticspress.org/articles/30
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The Big Bang theory is not based on fact, it is based on assumptions.
That redshift indicates expansion is an assumption, that expansion indicates a point beginning is an assumption, that this point "inflated" is an assumption (in order to get back to a big universe), that the CMB is a remnant of this inflation cool down is an assumption, that matter collected together is an assumption, that all matter was created only once is an assumption, and the biggest assumption of all, that the huge amounts of matter/energy being ejected, yes, I mean outflow, in the center of most galaxies is a result of matter streaming inward.
While the simplest explanation for all that is going on is that all stars are plasma stars like our Sun, and the the creation of matter in our universe is a result of plasma currents. Gravity is important for structure, but organization is ruled by electromagnetic energies.
tommy
The color spectrum depicts radiation in the form of light thus the color bouncing back is red meaning it is moving farther away; indesputable. However, does cosmic background radiation show temperature? Can we measure the tempurature of the edges of our universe thus a solar system of universes with a massive sunburst what I call it supply heat energy to other universes within our solar system of universes also the rate of expansion the doplar shift shows expansion at an accelerated rate. The larger the mass the more smaller masses it attracts could our universe be being pulled into expansion by more mass and when it reaches a critical phase where there is no where else for it to go it would just implode or fuse.
ryan Henningsgaard<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The color spectrum depicts radiation in the form of light thus the color bouncing back is red meaning it is moving farther away; indesputable.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Very interesting, if this were true, then why don't we see red starlight? I am confused, I keep hearing about the frequency of light being shifted by velocity, but isn't it the spectral lines being shifted toward the red?
It is not indisputable that redshift means it is moving farther away, it is and always was just an assmption. Hubble himself did not believe that assumption, and Tifft's findings indicate that the redshift does not jibe with distance in the expected way. IF the redshift indicates velocity and distance, then the observations show that we live in the center of an onionlike universe,
As far as the CMB is concerned. I came across this article less than a minute before reading you comment -- <blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation
June 2003 - 23[6]:49-63
The Big Bang Theory—A Scientific Critique [Part II] [Whole]
by Bert Thompson, Ph.D., Brad Harrub, Ph.D., and Branyon May
Printer version | Email this article
[EDITOR’S NOTE: With the May issue of Reason & Revelation, we started a three-part series investigating the Big Bang Theory. Part I began with a historical introduction, moved on to an examination of some of the scientific concepts upon which the Big Bang has been constructed, and ended with a section on why the Big Bang is scientifically flawed. Part II, below, picks up where Part I concluded, in examining additional reasons why the Big Bang Theory is not a valid option for the origin of the Universe.]
COSMIC MICROWAVE BACKGROUND RADIATION
In 1978, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson were honored with the Nobel Prize in physics for their discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation (referred to variously in the literature as CMB, CMR, or CBR; we will use the CMB designation throughout our discussion). The two researchers from Bell Laboratory serendipitously stumbled onto this phenomenon in June 1964, after first thinking it was an equipment malfunction. For a short while, they even attributed the background noise to what they referred to as “white dielectric material”—i.e., bird droppings (Fox, 2002, p. 78). The electromagnetic radiation they were experiencing was independent of the spot in the sky where they were focusing the antenna, and was only a faint “hiss” or “hum” in its magnitude. The microwaves, which can be related to temperature, produced the equivalent of approximately 3.5 K background radiation at 7.3 cm wavelength (“K” stands for Kelvin, the standard scientific temperature scale; 0 K equals absolute zero—the theoretical point at which all motion ceases: -459° Fahrenheit or -273° Celsius). Unable to decide why they were encountering this phenomenon, Penzias and Wilson sought the assistance of Robert Dicke at Princeton University who, with his colleagues, immediately latched onto this noise as the “echo” of the Big Bang. A prediction had been made prior to the discovery, that if the Big Bang were true, there should be some sort of constant radiation in space, although the prediction was for a temperature several times higher (see Weinberg, 1977, p. 50; Hoyle, et al., 2000, p. 80).
Figure 1 — Artist’s concept of crucial periods in the development of the Universe according to Big Bang inflationary cosmology
Previously, in our section on the Steady State Theory, we referred to the fact that a “new theoretical concept” eventually would be responsible for dethroning that theory. Our reference was to Penzias and Wilson’s discovery of the existence of the cosmic microwave background radiation. Described by some evolutionists as the “remnant afterglow of the Big Bang,” it is viewed as a faint light shining back to the beginning of the Universe (well, at least close to the beginning...say, within 300,000 to 400,000 years or so). This radiation, found in the form of microwaves, has been seized upon by proponents of the Big Bang Theory as proof of an initial catastrophic beginning—the “bang”—of our Universe. However, the temperature estimates of “space” were first published in 1896, even prior to George Gamow’s birth in 1904 (see Guillaume, 1896). C.E. Guillaume’s estimation was 5-6 K, and rather than blaming that temperature on some type of “Big Bang” explosion, he credited the stars belonging to our own galaxy.
The cosmic background radiation spelled almost instant doom for the Steady State Theory, because the theory did not predict a background radiation (since there was no initial outpouring of radiation in that model). Plus, there was no way to introduce the idea of such background radiation into the existing theory. Therefore, the Quasi-Steady-State Theory, a slight variation by Hoyle, Burbidge, and Narlikar, was formed to try to make sense of this “chink” in the armor of the Steady State Theory. The British science journal Nature stated it well: “Nobody should be surprised, therefore, if the handful of those who reject the Big Bang claim the new data as support for their theories also” (see “Big Bang Brouhaha,” 1992, 356:731). The prediction made by Nature was right on target. The CMB radiation data have indeed been used by almost all theorists as an ad hoc support for their views. A logical question to ask would be: “Do these various groups all claim it on the same scientific grounds?” The answer, of course, is no.
Speaking of the CMB radiation, Joseph Silk referred to the results as “the cornerstone of Big Bang cosmology” (1992, p. 741). There can be no doubt that there exists a cosmic electromagnetic radiation on the microwave order, and that its temperature correlation is approximately 3 K (technically 2.728 K; see Harrison, 2000, p. 394). This fact is not in dispute—verifiable data have been compiled from the numerous experiments that have been conducted. As David Berlinski observed: “The cosmic hum is real enough, and so, too, is the fact that the universe is bathed in background radiation” (1998, p. 30). The ground data have been collected using the Caltech radio millimeter interferometer and the Owens Valley Array. Low-atmosphere instruments also have recorded CMB radiation using two balloon flights: MAXIMA (which, in 1998, flew at a height of approximately 24.5 miles for one night over Texas) and BOOMERANG (which, in 1998, flew at a height of around 23.5 miles for ten days over Antarctica), as well as from the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) and the Microwave Anisotropy Probe (MAP) satellite missions by NASA [see Figure 4] (Peterson, 1990; Flam, 1992; Musser, 2000).
What is in dispute is the explanation for the phenomenon. The late Sir Arthur Eddington—in his book, The Internal Constitution of the Stars (1926)—already had provided an accurate explanation for this temperature found in space. In the book’s last chapter (“Diffuse Matter in Space”), he discussed the temperature in space. In Eddington’s estimation, this phenomenon was not due to some ancient explosion, but rather was simply the background radiation from all of the heat sources that occupy the Universe. He calculated the minimum temperature to which any particular body in space would cool, given the fact that such bodies constantly are immersed in the radiation of distant starlight. With no adjustable parameters, he obtained a value of 3.18 K (later refined to 2.
—essentially the same as the observed “background” radiation that is known to exist today.In 1933, German scientist Erhard Regener showed that the intensity of the radiation coming from the plane of the Milky Way was essentially the same as that coming from a plane normal to it. He obtained a value of 2.8 K, which he felt would be the temperature characteristic of intergalactic space (Regener, 1933). His prediction came more than thirty years before Penzias and Wilson’s discovery of the cosmic microwave background. The radiation that Big Bang theorists predicted was supposed to be much hotter than what was actually discovered. Gamow started his prediction at 5 K, and just a few years before Penzias and Wilson’s discovery, suggested that it should be 50 K (see Alpher and Herman, 1949; Gamow, 1961). As Van Flandern noted:
The amount of radiation emitted by distant galaxies falls with increasing wavelengths, as expected if the longer wavelengths are scattered by the intergalactic medium. For example, the brightness ratio of radio galaxies at infrared and radio wavelengths changes with distance in a way which implies absorption. Basically, this means that the longer wavelengths are more easily absorbed by material between the galaxies. But then the microwave radiation (between the two wavelengths) should be absorbed by that medium too, and has no chance to reach us from such great distances, or to remain perfectly uniform while doing so. It must instead result from the radiation of microwaves from the intergalactic medium. This argument alone implies that the microwaves could not be coming directly to us from a distance beyond all the galaxies, and therefore that the Big Bang theory cannot be correct.
None of the predictions of the background temperature based on the Big Bang was close enough to qualify as successes, the worst being Gamow’s upward-revised estimate of 50 K made in 1961, just two years before the actual discovery. Clearly, without a realistic quantitative prediction, the Big Bang’s hypothetical “fireball” becomes indistinguishable from the natural minimum temperature of all cold matter in space (2002, 9:73-74, parenthetical item in orig., emp. added).
From www.apologeticspress.org/articles/30
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The Big Bang theory is not based on fact, it is based on assumptions.
That redshift indicates expansion is an assumption, that expansion indicates a point beginning is an assumption, that this point "inflated" is an assumption (in order to get back to a big universe), that the CMB is a remnant of this inflation cool down is an assumption, that matter collected together is an assumption, that all matter was created only once is an assumption, and the biggest assumption of all, that the huge amounts of matter/energy being ejected, yes, I mean outflow, in the center of most galaxies is a result of matter streaming inward.
While the simplest explanation for all that is going on is that all stars are plasma stars like our Sun, and the the creation of matter in our universe is a result of plasma currents. Gravity is important for structure, but organization is ruled by electromagnetic energies.
tommy
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