accereration 101

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21 years 6 months ago #5809 by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Velocity is speed with direction as you say. Speed being motion with no particular direction I suppose. Acceleration does continue even if velocity remains constant. The two are not all that closely related. For example the Earth is accelerated at a rate of .006m/s2 by the sun but there is no change in the velocity of Earth.

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21 years 6 months ago #5919 by Larry Burford
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>[Jim]
Velocity is speed with direction as you say.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Yes. Both components are important.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Speed being motion with no particular direction I suppose.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Close, but no cigar. Study JUU's reply and try again. If you get this part right you will probably get all of it right.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Acceleration does continue even if velocity remains constant. The two are not all that closely related.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>Not gonna happen. But change the word "acceleration" to the word "force" and you have a valid observation. Both sentences.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
For example the Earth is accelerated at a rate of .006m/s2 by the sun but there is no change in the velocity of Earth.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>The Earth's velocity due to this acceleration never stops changing.

Regards,
LB

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21 years 6 months ago #5724 by Jim
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Hi LB, Once again I have no idea what you are about. I will never get anything out of a third party comment so please tell me what you know here that should be clear to me if I was a smart as you or at least not as dumb as I am.

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21 years 6 months ago #5725 by Jim
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Force and acceleration are related by f=ma. If energy particles are zero mass and this is used the mass can be removed and f=a. This is how a photon can be defined? Or this is false?

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21 years 6 months ago #5920 by Larry Burford
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
[Jim]
Hi LB, Once again I have no idea what you are about. I will never get anything out of a third party comment so please tell me what you know here that should be clear to me if I was a smart as you or at least not as dumb as I am.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
I really don't think you have a problem in the smart category - it is merely a matter of training.

[Jim] Velocity is speed with direction.
[ LB] Velocity has two "pieces", speed and direction.

[Jim] Speed being motion with no particular direction.
[ LB] Speed is the non-directional "piece" of velocity.

Motion ALWAYS has a particular direction. But in a lot of situations the direction is not important, or is obvious from the context, etc. So we often just talk of something's speed.

And way too often we use the word velocity when we should use the word speed. WAY TOO OFTEN. As in almost all the time.

Any description of motion that doesn't *explicity* specify the direction is a speed, not a velocity.

75 miles per hour to the north east is a velocity.
75 miles per hour at a compass heading of 45 degrees is a velocity.
75 miles per hour straight up is a velocity.
(You might recognize that the first two are the same velocity.)

95 miles per hour "that way" is a velocity. Don't forget to point.
(But even if you are pointing to the north east, it is not the same velocity as the first two examples above.)

75 miles per hour is a speed.

[Jim] The Earth is accelerated by the Sun but its velocity does not change.
[ LB] Change "velocity" to "speed" and you are correct.

The speed of the Earth in its orbit is always about 30 km/sec (neglecting small variations due to eccintricity), but the direction in which the Earth moves is constantly changing. Because one of the pieces of the Earth's velocity is never constant, the velocity itself is never constant.

This is one of those times when the common practice of referring to a speed as a velocity is way too common. There isn't a convenient, widely understood way to specify a continuously changing direction. The closest we have is for talking about celestial bodies - we say "orbital" velocity to imply the changing direction.

As in - the Earth's orbital velocity is about 30 km/sec.

Since velocity is both pieces, they both have to be constant before you can say velocity is constant.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Force and acceleration are related by f=ma. If energy particles are zero mass and this is used the mass can be removed and f=a. This is how a photon can be defined? Or this is false?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
Sorry; if mass = 0, then
f = 0 * a
and
f = 0.

I'm pretty sure this is not how photons are defined.

And it leaves another issue hidden - units.

Suppose mass = 1, then
f = 1 * a
and
f = a.
Right?

No, not right. f (still equals) ma. Plugging in numbers doesn't allow you to "remove the mass".

If you don't understand units, you don't understand reality (physics).

If you do a units analysis of each equation, you will see what I'm getting at when you get to "f = a". There is no way to make units of force equal units of acceleration.


Regards,
LB


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21 years 6 months ago #6083 by Jim
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The orbit of a body has speed but not velocity according to the above post? So, then it is a constant change in direction that accounts for the fact that the orbit is as Kepler says? And the acceleration is used by the body and therefore somehow must be absorbed or radiated away,right? As for mass of a photon; it may be something more than zero as you seem to say so f=>0ma for one photon? Is this better or worse?(I'm quite a bit less neat than you are so if I have >0 where I should have <0 or other omissions and errors please forgive and if you wish correct them. thanks)

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