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Requiem for Relativity
12 years 11 months ago #24373
by Bart
Replied by Bart on topic Reply from
Occultation of Jupiter by the Moon on 7 Dec 2004 9:14:02 UT: The observed pictures seem correlate with Jupiter being around 25 arcsec behind its calculated position on it's orbit.
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12 years 11 months ago #13677
by Bart
Replied by Bart on topic Reply from
Occultation of Jupiter by the Moon on 7 Dec 2004 9:14:02 UT:
Earth was having a radial velocity of 26.7km/s towards Jupiter and tangent velocity of 3.7km/s with Jupiter.
On 15 Dec 2004:
Earth was having a radial velocity of 25.4km/s towards Jupiter and min tangent value below 1km/s.
On 13 Feb 2005:
Earth was having a radial velocity of 0km/s towards Jupiter and max tangent value of 17.7 km/s.
On 7 Dec 2004:
- Earth is 111 degrees 'behind' Jupiter (with reference frame of the Solar System).
- A star observed from the Earth in the apparent direction of Jupiter shows at 30.1 degrees relative to direction the Earth is moving: this causes a stellar aberration of 10.3 arcsec.
- The same star observed from Jupiter shows at 81 degrees relative to the direction of Jupiter : this causes a stellar aberration of 8.7 arcsec (on Jupiter).
- Because the Earth and Jupiter move in opposite directions relative to the orientation of the star, the stellar aberration as observed from the Earth and Jupiter work in opposite directions.
Why does Jupiter show behind its calculated position?
Consider the light coming from the same star referred to above.
The light from the star will follow a 'bell-shaped' curve when crossing the solar system:
- at first, the light bends towards the direction from where the rotating elysium is coming
- as light gets closer to the sun, it well bend back to its original direction when it is passing the sun
- behind the sun, it will bend back in the opposite direction
- further down, it will resume the direction that light was taking when it first entered the solar system
This path can be simulated by knowing that the orientation at any point on the curve can be calculated through the formula of stellar aberration and the speed/direction of a planet on that position.
So for the situation on 7 Dec 2004:
- Jupiter was positioned 'uphill' on this bell-curve with a slope of 8.7 arcsec
- Earth was positioned 'downhill' on this bell-curve with a slope of 10.3 arcsec
For an observer on Earth looking back from where the light of both the star and Jupiter are coming:
- star shows an aberration of 10.3 arcsec
- Jupiter shows with an aberration around 10.3 + 8.7 arcsec
(with an apparent direction that looking behind the actual position)
Earth was having a radial velocity of 26.7km/s towards Jupiter and tangent velocity of 3.7km/s with Jupiter.
On 15 Dec 2004:
Earth was having a radial velocity of 25.4km/s towards Jupiter and min tangent value below 1km/s.
On 13 Feb 2005:
Earth was having a radial velocity of 0km/s towards Jupiter and max tangent value of 17.7 km/s.
On 7 Dec 2004:
- Earth is 111 degrees 'behind' Jupiter (with reference frame of the Solar System).
- A star observed from the Earth in the apparent direction of Jupiter shows at 30.1 degrees relative to direction the Earth is moving: this causes a stellar aberration of 10.3 arcsec.
- The same star observed from Jupiter shows at 81 degrees relative to the direction of Jupiter : this causes a stellar aberration of 8.7 arcsec (on Jupiter).
- Because the Earth and Jupiter move in opposite directions relative to the orientation of the star, the stellar aberration as observed from the Earth and Jupiter work in opposite directions.
Why does Jupiter show behind its calculated position?
Consider the light coming from the same star referred to above.
The light from the star will follow a 'bell-shaped' curve when crossing the solar system:
- at first, the light bends towards the direction from where the rotating elysium is coming
- as light gets closer to the sun, it well bend back to its original direction when it is passing the sun
- behind the sun, it will bend back in the opposite direction
- further down, it will resume the direction that light was taking when it first entered the solar system
This path can be simulated by knowing that the orientation at any point on the curve can be calculated through the formula of stellar aberration and the speed/direction of a planet on that position.
So for the situation on 7 Dec 2004:
- Jupiter was positioned 'uphill' on this bell-curve with a slope of 8.7 arcsec
- Earth was positioned 'downhill' on this bell-curve with a slope of 10.3 arcsec
For an observer on Earth looking back from where the light of both the star and Jupiter are coming:
- star shows an aberration of 10.3 arcsec
- Jupiter shows with an aberration around 10.3 + 8.7 arcsec
(with an apparent direction that looking behind the actual position)
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12 years 11 months ago #13678
by Bart
Replied by Bart on topic Reply from
Occultation of Jupiter by the Moon on 7 Dec 2004 9:14 UT:
spaceweather.com/occultations/07dec04/parker1_huge.jpg
Both Europa and Ganymede are visible on the pictures (which should allow for a more precise localisation)
spaceweather.com/occultations/07dec04/parker1_huge.jpg
Both Europa and Ganymede are visible on the pictures (which should allow for a more precise localisation)
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12 years 11 months ago #13680
by Jim
Replied by Jim on topic Reply from
Hundreds of stars are occulted by our moon every month. Can these very events be used to establish data needed here? The planets passing stars also might reveal the data you need(?).
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12 years 11 months ago #13681
by Bart
Replied by Bart on topic Reply from
Additional occultations of moon/star, moon/planet and planet/star should indeed point us in the right direction.
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12 years 11 months ago #13682
by Bart
Replied by Bart on topic Reply from
Occultation of Jupiter by the Moon on 7 Dec 2004 9:14 UT:
spaceweather.com/occultations/07dec04/parker1_huge.jpg
The location of the observation : N 25 39' 5.00" W 80 16' 42.00"
Using Stellarium, I identified the location on Earth that would correspond with the observed positions of Jupiter, Ganymedes and Europa as:
N 25 51' 5.00" W 81 50' 51.98"
Google Earth calculates the distance between both locations as 99 miles / 159 km.
So aberration must be causing a true displacement of the path followed by the light. To know the exact amount displacement near the Moon, the 99 miles/159 km needs to be adjusted downwards taking into account the angle between the surface of the Earth and the direction of the observation.
spaceweather.com/occultations/07dec04/parker1_huge.jpg
The location of the observation : N 25 39' 5.00" W 80 16' 42.00"
Using Stellarium, I identified the location on Earth that would correspond with the observed positions of Jupiter, Ganymedes and Europa as:
N 25 51' 5.00" W 81 50' 51.98"
Google Earth calculates the distance between both locations as 99 miles / 159 km.
So aberration must be causing a true displacement of the path followed by the light. To know the exact amount displacement near the Moon, the 99 miles/159 km needs to be adjusted downwards taking into account the angle between the surface of the Earth and the direction of the observation.
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