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21 years 11 months ago #3907
by Samizdat
Replied by Samizdat on topic Reply from Frederick Wilson
PDF file sent as requested, Quantum, enjoy!
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- MarkVitrone
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21 years 11 months ago #3543
by MarkVitrone
Replied by MarkVitrone on topic Reply from Mark Vitrone
thanks! MV
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21 years 11 months ago #3544
by Samizdat
Replied by Samizdat on topic Reply from Frederick Wilson
Quoting Cherekon:
"As a general challenge --not of course overlooking the entertainment value -- I would like to apply this to a range of topics more specifically suited to the interests of this list. I, myself have a quite personal interest in such apparently diverse topics as the internal dynamics of particle spin, the nature of consciousness, gravitation and time.
Is this what you had in mind, Fred?
c...."
Not exactly, Cherekon, but if you can suggest an experiment which
would allow us to train a gravimeter or another kind of remote
sensing device on a point in space 8 minutes and 19 seconds ahead of
the Sun (i.e., train the instrument at the target point where the Sun
actually is at the moment we're aiming, as opposed to where we see
the Sun), and thereby achieve a statistically significant reading,
I would have to conclude that you have successfully designed an
experiment which demonstrates FTL phenomena. Further thoughts on
this idea you will find in the "Gravity and Relativity" forum under
the thread "F.T.L. Morse, the Forgotten Descendant."
"As a general challenge --not of course overlooking the entertainment value -- I would like to apply this to a range of topics more specifically suited to the interests of this list. I, myself have a quite personal interest in such apparently diverse topics as the internal dynamics of particle spin, the nature of consciousness, gravitation and time.
Is this what you had in mind, Fred?
c...."
Not exactly, Cherekon, but if you can suggest an experiment which
would allow us to train a gravimeter or another kind of remote
sensing device on a point in space 8 minutes and 19 seconds ahead of
the Sun (i.e., train the instrument at the target point where the Sun
actually is at the moment we're aiming, as opposed to where we see
the Sun), and thereby achieve a statistically significant reading,
I would have to conclude that you have successfully designed an
experiment which demonstrates FTL phenomena. Further thoughts on
this idea you will find in the "Gravity and Relativity" forum under
the thread "F.T.L. Morse, the Forgotten Descendant."
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- Quantum_Gravity
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21 years 11 months ago #3779
by Quantum_Gravity
Replied by Quantum_Gravity on topic Reply from Randall damron
I got the FTL signal director explanation and Economics paper in emails and thank you both, Cherekon for the economics paper and for FTL(related) i like to thank samizdat, they are both thought fufilling!!
The intuitive mind
The intuitive mind
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21 years 11 months ago #3584
by Cherekon
>Is this what you had in mind, Fred?
Samizdat wrote:
Not exactly, Cherekon, but if you can suggest an experiment which would allow us to train a gravimeter or another kind of remote sensing device on a point in space 8 minutes and 19 seconds ahead of the Sun (i.e., train the instrument at the target point where the Sun actually is at the moment we're aiming, as opposed to where we see the Sun), and thereby achieve a statistically significant reading, I would have to conclude that you have successfully designed an experiment which demonstrates FTL phenomena.
Samizdat,
I think the gravitational field of the Earth itself would induce a very high signal-to-noise ratio for any planetary based experiment. Therefore, a solar orbital platform would appear to provide the best opportunity for experiment. Presuming that such a vehicle were available, and assuming that a stable solar orbit was established well away from planetary gravitation (should such a thing be truly possible within the system as a whole), then let's imagine this platform as the base of a pendulum. This could easily be many miles in length, --say, a significant mass attached to the end of a cable-- so that at some extension from the platform, it's angle, relative to orgital direction, would be measurably affected by the mass of the sun as the prevailing center of gravity. This angle, relative to the apparent optical position of the sun, should then indicate the actual solar position in, as some would put it, forward in time. Sorry, but the only other alternative I can think of is to sink a hundred billion or so into a mine shaft somewhere and look for the strongest source of governmentally funded, imaginary "gravitons." <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
Replied by Cherekon on topic Reply from
>Is this what you had in mind, Fred?
Samizdat wrote:
Not exactly, Cherekon, but if you can suggest an experiment which would allow us to train a gravimeter or another kind of remote sensing device on a point in space 8 minutes and 19 seconds ahead of the Sun (i.e., train the instrument at the target point where the Sun actually is at the moment we're aiming, as opposed to where we see the Sun), and thereby achieve a statistically significant reading, I would have to conclude that you have successfully designed an experiment which demonstrates FTL phenomena.
Samizdat,
I think the gravitational field of the Earth itself would induce a very high signal-to-noise ratio for any planetary based experiment. Therefore, a solar orbital platform would appear to provide the best opportunity for experiment. Presuming that such a vehicle were available, and assuming that a stable solar orbit was established well away from planetary gravitation (should such a thing be truly possible within the system as a whole), then let's imagine this platform as the base of a pendulum. This could easily be many miles in length, --say, a significant mass attached to the end of a cable-- so that at some extension from the platform, it's angle, relative to orgital direction, would be measurably affected by the mass of the sun as the prevailing center of gravity. This angle, relative to the apparent optical position of the sun, should then indicate the actual solar position in, as some would put it, forward in time. Sorry, but the only other alternative I can think of is to sink a hundred billion or so into a mine shaft somewhere and look for the strongest source of governmentally funded, imaginary "gravitons." <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
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21 years 11 months ago #4245
by Cherekon
Replied by Cherekon on topic Reply from
quote]
and assuming that a stable solar orbit was established well away from planetary gravitation (should such a thing be truly possible within the system as a whole), then let's imagine this platform as the base of a pendulum
Makis wrote:
"There should be stable points where all gravity forces cancel out, such as the L points between earth and moon. Wouldn't such a point provide the inertial reference frame needed for the measurements?"
Thank you, Makis. I was speaking extemporaneously, and hadn't thought the thing entirely through. The L-points would seem, at first glance, to be the most appropriate locations for such an experiment.
To add a further comment in regard to the simplest possible method of measuring the resulting angle, the enmassed end of this 'pendulum' could also be fitted for calibration, much like a simple ruler. A large mylar collar for example, --somewhat like an umbrella-- could be unfurled around the center mass of the pendulum. Photo-diodes placed on the "outer" surface --that opposite the sun-- could then be utilized in lieu of calibration marks. A low-wattage laser, oriented optically towards the direct center of the visible sun, would then activate those diodes representing the succession of diverent degrees. I'm sure others can think of more elegant solutions, but this is what comes to me at this time.
and assuming that a stable solar orbit was established well away from planetary gravitation (should such a thing be truly possible within the system as a whole), then let's imagine this platform as the base of a pendulum
Makis wrote:
"There should be stable points where all gravity forces cancel out, such as the L points between earth and moon. Wouldn't such a point provide the inertial reference frame needed for the measurements?"
Thank you, Makis. I was speaking extemporaneously, and hadn't thought the thing entirely through. The L-points would seem, at first glance, to be the most appropriate locations for such an experiment.
To add a further comment in regard to the simplest possible method of measuring the resulting angle, the enmassed end of this 'pendulum' could also be fitted for calibration, much like a simple ruler. A large mylar collar for example, --somewhat like an umbrella-- could be unfurled around the center mass of the pendulum. Photo-diodes placed on the "outer" surface --that opposite the sun-- could then be utilized in lieu of calibration marks. A low-wattage laser, oriented optically towards the direct center of the visible sun, would then activate those diodes representing the succession of diverent degrees. I'm sure others can think of more elegant solutions, but this is what comes to me at this time.
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