Why I disagree with static eternal universe

Jim,
A proton is said to decay over an enormous time scale of 1 year to the power of 35 or 1 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 00 years an unimaginable time scale. But can one drive the universe from proton energy or, how would one extract usable energy from this particle??.

As I am sure you know they have set up proton decay detectors but I am not sure they have seen single proton decay

Thank I must revisit this topic

Alan



I feel as if I am a small boy holding but a teaspoon of knowledge standing before the Infinity Ocean of all knowledge

Hi Alan, I knew one of Stephen Hawking's nurses, note the "one of". His first marriage was destroyed by fame. Hawking couldn't handle it at all. He became a little diva-ish. Most people that become famous actively seek to become so. It can be disastrous for a scientist. Most famous people can leave the madness of it at the front door. Not so Hawking, he found himself with a live in staff of nurses. His wife found herself marginalised by this. Hawking actually loved it, he didn't notice that his family were being gradually alienated from him.

How is Hawking guilty of blasphemy? The big bang is not even a matter of faith with the catholic church. Anyway, Hawking is not against the big bang theory. It looks like one man's blasphemy is another's founding religious tenet. The term "bite the bullet" springs to mind, pork fat or cow fat, it doesn't matter, once at war with the blasphemer your afterlife is safe whatever the fat used. Was landing a man on the moon a blasphemy? It was, and ignorance of some religion's belief is no defence it seems. Invent a non stick frying pan and expect a cargo cult member to hit you over the head with it. It all sounds very fair, godless scientists invent stuff that is magically transformed in the hands of the true believer, into something good. Of course all of these "devilish" inventions will be thrown into the dustbin once the chosen take over.

Your suggestion that god equals existence; sounds to me, that you support the idea of the universe as god. Though you evidently think that newagers are absurd, or even moronic, presumably for their crass materialism. Existence and materiality are very different concepts. With the former we are talking about the logical category of being. With the latter, we are talking about cogeries of categories.

If you said that existence is dependent on the reality of god, then, after you have described the logical workings of the concept, it could be examined. But not here, this is a physics, astronomy site, and it doesn't have a category for such a discussion.

So, back to the discussion of energy. It exists, and it cannot be destroyed. Entropy takes an exponential curve, it never reaches zero. Never is a very long time.

Okay, I want to take all of the mass of the universe and stuff it into a tiny radius. The Shwartzchild radius of an electron for instance. That's about 1E-57 metres. Whats the mass of the observed universe? About 1E 52 kg. There has to be more of it, so lets make it 1E 57

r = 2GM / c^2 Thats 0.5E-114 = G / c^2 We get no gravity to speak of, or we get a speed of light which is huge. But hang about, it gets worse. The radius should be minus infinity and the mass is supposed to increase to infinity. No gravity then, or an infinite speed of light.

Alan, I'm just trying to learn more about entropy. As you indicate the entropy of a single particle cannot be known but entropy can be applied to groups of atoms. So, why can't you just do the math and get entropy of one atom or proton? This has nothing to do with proton decay. I ask you again what in the entropy of any atom? By any atom I mean a proton, iron, gold or whatever atom you choose.

Jim

It depends on which kind of atom and even varies from atom to atom for the same kind.

The electron cloud state if you like alters all the time, so in this quatum micro system you can of course inject energy (heat) into an atom and lower entropy for that single atom

But atoms like all matter must discharge it energy by entropy.

To ask what is the entropy of any atom is just like asking what is the entropy in any room, you just cant debateit like that

On average, the fission of one Uranium 235 atom (the main fuel used in the vast majority of the world's nuclear reactors) is 200 MeV. (Mega electron Volts)

This is a tiny amount of energy per atom, 8.9e-15 watt hours according to the attached link. You have to remember that there are trillions of atoms fissioning per second in a reactor, so they add up when multiplied by countless trillions

The maths is very complex an this is what the Manhatten atomic bomb project battle to solve and these were the supreme minds of that generation. Maybe these documents have been declasified by now , I will look it up
Alan

I feel as if I am a small boy holding but a teaspoon of knowledge standing before the Infinity Ocean of all knowledge

Stoat,

Well in response to your post, I did not state Stephen Hawking was guilty of blasphemy his wife said he was when he said if the big bang did not happen there was no need for a creator or God

I do not think the universe is god other do and pray to it. Read my post ad you will see that is what I stated. By saying god = existence is just another way of stating the ultimate question, the "Existence of existence" is a puzzle and god is just another term for it. I do however believe there are beings in existence that could be billions of years in advance of us, that they would not recognize our existence or that we are also intelligent sentient beings. To them we might be as a microbe is to us

And I absolutely agree that this being a physics science forum we should avoid philosophic question

I know well that energy cannot be destroyed, but with each cycle it is dissipated by entropy. So how can the universe reverse this extremely high entropy and make the system back to zero entropy. I am talking on the universal scale you simply cannot draw energy out of a cold high entropic state and decrease the entropy for the whole system

An infinity requires an infinity of energy to drive and sustain it how can you reintroduce new energy into infinity, to my tiny mind it makes no sense

So please convince me nd I will relent to the pressure of your combined intellects



I feel as if I am a small boy holding but a teaspoon of knowledge standing before the Infinity Ocean of all knowledge

Alan, So its very difficult to figure this out-right? What about if you consider E=mc^2-how much entropy do you get with this idea? The energy is made from the mass and mass is made from energy but no entropy is observed or measured. Its because E-mc^2 is about energy and mass and entropy is is about the way energy flows in mass. It may be as you say nothing is added or lost in either process but the transformation of mass to energy and energy to mass is different than the flow of energy through mass-Not that we know very much about either process.