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Elysium
20 years 10 months ago #7356
by PhilJ
Replied by PhilJ on topic Reply from Philip Janes
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Quantum gravitational states have been observed for the first time.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Having just read the article in <i>Nature</i>, I have a different interpretation of the experimental result. Allow me to draw an analogy: The experimenters bounced golf balls (neutrons) off of a frozen lake (neutron reflector) below a dense canopy of trees (neutron absorber). The number of golf balls reaching the far side of the lake, graphed against the height of the tree canopy, was a bumpy curve, which was interpreted as evidence of quantum gravity.
The article doesn't say what material the neutron reflector was made of, but I assume it was composed of atoms. What else, beside atomic nuclei can reflect neutrons? A better analogy would replace that smoothe flat frozen lake with bowling balls floating in mid air with considerable space between them. The vertical momentum of a bounced golf ball would depend on how near to the top of the bowling ball it struck. Regular spacing of the bowling balls might be expected to yield a quantum variation in the number of golf balls reaching the far side. The wonder is that any neutrons got across, at all.
Having just read the article in <i>Nature</i>, I have a different interpretation of the experimental result. Allow me to draw an analogy: The experimenters bounced golf balls (neutrons) off of a frozen lake (neutron reflector) below a dense canopy of trees (neutron absorber). The number of golf balls reaching the far side of the lake, graphed against the height of the tree canopy, was a bumpy curve, which was interpreted as evidence of quantum gravity.
The article doesn't say what material the neutron reflector was made of, but I assume it was composed of atoms. What else, beside atomic nuclei can reflect neutrons? A better analogy would replace that smoothe flat frozen lake with bowling balls floating in mid air with considerable space between them. The vertical momentum of a bounced golf ball would depend on how near to the top of the bowling ball it struck. Regular spacing of the bowling balls might be expected to yield a quantum variation in the number of golf balls reaching the far side. The wonder is that any neutrons got across, at all.
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20 years 7 months ago #8547
by dholeman
Replied by dholeman on topic Reply from Don Holeman
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
<br />Yes. But these effects are slight in most places because the graviton-blocking efficiency for most bodies is so low.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The implosion trigger mechanism for atom bombs acts by compressing spontaneously fissile material to a several-fold increase in it's density. The explaination for the effectiveness of the mechanism is that such compression multiplies chaining. I am wondering if it is possible that the compression also increases the rate of spontaneous fission through graviton capture. I'm also wondering if it is possible that by imploding a stable isotope of a high-density element one would cause it to fission. It seems to me that this would be a natural prediction of the Meta Model, and might represent a mechanism for both proving and characterizing graviton capture, though it would certainly require some pretty dicey test conditions.
No great thing was ever created suddenly - Epictitus
<br />Yes. But these effects are slight in most places because the graviton-blocking efficiency for most bodies is so low.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The implosion trigger mechanism for atom bombs acts by compressing spontaneously fissile material to a several-fold increase in it's density. The explaination for the effectiveness of the mechanism is that such compression multiplies chaining. I am wondering if it is possible that the compression also increases the rate of spontaneous fission through graviton capture. I'm also wondering if it is possible that by imploding a stable isotope of a high-density element one would cause it to fission. It seems to me that this would be a natural prediction of the Meta Model, and might represent a mechanism for both proving and characterizing graviton capture, though it would certainly require some pretty dicey test conditions.
No great thing was ever created suddenly - Epictitus
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20 years 7 months ago #8718
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by dholeman</i>
<br />I am wondering if it is possible that the compression also increases the rate of spontaneous fission through graviton capture.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The specific idea, explained in the MRB article "Planetary explosion mechanisms", is that graviton interaction with both baryons and elysium can produce excess heat. The former is the "absorption" factor in Slabinski's PG article, and the latter much larger factor would be the "scattered" gravitons whose heat contributions are carried off unobservably by elysium.
Then if ordinary matter is compressed densely enough to trap the contained elysium so that it can no longer carry off the excess heat, it would build to a massive explosion within a very small fraction of a second. This does indeed sound similar to what happens in nuclear fission processes.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm also wondering if it is possible that by imploding a stable isotope of a high-density element one would cause it to fission.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">This theory would indicate that stable isotopes are just as suitable as unstable ones for this purpose, as you suggest. But heavier elements would start out with an advantage over lighter elements because they are already high-density before collapse. And the excess heat they naturally produce by slowing the free flow of elysium presumably is what shortens the half-life of their radioactivity. Indeed, this whole process may be what sets a limit to the atomic weight of stable nuclei.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It seems to me that this would be a natural prediction of the Meta Model, and might represent a mechanism for both proving and characterizing graviton capture, though it would certainly require some pretty dicey test conditions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">It seems to me that learning how to add atomic mass to a nucleus would be a prerequisite to any such experiments. In other words, we must first learn how to turn lead into gold! -|Tom|-
<br />I am wondering if it is possible that the compression also increases the rate of spontaneous fission through graviton capture.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">The specific idea, explained in the MRB article "Planetary explosion mechanisms", is that graviton interaction with both baryons and elysium can produce excess heat. The former is the "absorption" factor in Slabinski's PG article, and the latter much larger factor would be the "scattered" gravitons whose heat contributions are carried off unobservably by elysium.
Then if ordinary matter is compressed densely enough to trap the contained elysium so that it can no longer carry off the excess heat, it would build to a massive explosion within a very small fraction of a second. This does indeed sound similar to what happens in nuclear fission processes.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm also wondering if it is possible that by imploding a stable isotope of a high-density element one would cause it to fission.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">This theory would indicate that stable isotopes are just as suitable as unstable ones for this purpose, as you suggest. But heavier elements would start out with an advantage over lighter elements because they are already high-density before collapse. And the excess heat they naturally produce by slowing the free flow of elysium presumably is what shortens the half-life of their radioactivity. Indeed, this whole process may be what sets a limit to the atomic weight of stable nuclei.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It seems to me that this would be a natural prediction of the Meta Model, and might represent a mechanism for both proving and characterizing graviton capture, though it would certainly require some pretty dicey test conditions.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">It seems to me that learning how to add atomic mass to a nucleus would be a prerequisite to any such experiments. In other words, we must first learn how to turn lead into gold! -|Tom|-
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20 years 7 months ago #8553
by DAVID
Replied by DAVID on topic Reply from
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tvanflandern</i>
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as needed to make the wave speed in elysium = c. -|Tom|-
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Doesn’t the wave speed of light vary according to the density of the “Elysium” through which it travels?
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20 years 7 months ago #8568
by Leo Vuyk
Replied by Leo Vuyk on topic Reply from
Tom wrote:
Like charges repel. My first thought was that protons, for example, were sources of gravitons, which would allow them to repel. But it did not explain repulsion between electrons yet attraction between protons and electrons.
Also, gravitons were far too weak a force if extrapolated to the quantum scale. In short, gravitons alone did not explain charge. Even more basically, why should all protons and all electrons be identical? Sameness of properties for each discrete entity is a wave characteristic. So how do we explain that particles also have some wave characteristics?
I try not to guess answers to questions such as these because that is inductive, a process frequently wrong.
[Leo]
Why couldn't we think in terms of FORM.
That each FUNCTION in the particle ZOO, is represented by a different FORM.
Then it will become very simple to generate repulsion and attraction between Fermions as we see in Nature.
However, this means that we have to count for: North and South magnetic radiation and Plus and Minus electric charge radiation together 4!! different shaped particles.
Also for Gamma ray and X-ray and Gravity and even visible light.
So we need 8!! different shaped particles for photons.
and only 2 particles extra (electron and positron) to form 36 quarks with so called "click -on" photons/gluons.
see: Function Follows Form in Quantum Mechanics.;
home.planet.nl/~vuyk0022/
Like charges repel. My first thought was that protons, for example, were sources of gravitons, which would allow them to repel. But it did not explain repulsion between electrons yet attraction between protons and electrons.
Also, gravitons were far too weak a force if extrapolated to the quantum scale. In short, gravitons alone did not explain charge. Even more basically, why should all protons and all electrons be identical? Sameness of properties for each discrete entity is a wave characteristic. So how do we explain that particles also have some wave characteristics?
I try not to guess answers to questions such as these because that is inductive, a process frequently wrong.
[Leo]
Why couldn't we think in terms of FORM.
That each FUNCTION in the particle ZOO, is represented by a different FORM.
Then it will become very simple to generate repulsion and attraction between Fermions as we see in Nature.
However, this means that we have to count for: North and South magnetic radiation and Plus and Minus electric charge radiation together 4!! different shaped particles.
Also for Gamma ray and X-ray and Gravity and even visible light.
So we need 8!! different shaped particles for photons.
and only 2 particles extra (electron and positron) to form 36 quarks with so called "click -on" photons/gluons.
see: Function Follows Form in Quantum Mechanics.;
home.planet.nl/~vuyk0022/
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20 years 7 months ago #8724
by tvanflandern
Replied by tvanflandern on topic Reply from Tom Van Flandern
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by DAVID</i>
<br />Doesn’t the wave speed of light vary according to the density of the “Elysium” through which it travels?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. Observationally, that is known as the "Shapiro effect", and shows up most easily when bouncing radar signals off other planets. -|Tom|-
<br />Doesn’t the wave speed of light vary according to the density of the “Elysium” through which it travels?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Yes. Observationally, that is known as the "Shapiro effect", and shows up most easily when bouncing radar signals off other planets. -|Tom|-
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